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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > determining pay load capacity

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JIMNLIN

Oklahoma

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Posted: 12/27/20 06:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoone wrote:

Sorry to get in the way of your thread de-railing and unnecessary attitude. It was quite rude on my part.

LOL...too funny.


"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers

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spoon059

Just north of D.C.

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Posted: 12/28/20 10:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JIMNLIN wrote:

LOL...too funny.

[emoticon] I mean, we are in the tow vehicles category, I should have known better!


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JIMNLIN

Oklahoma

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Posted: 12/28/20 12:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lots of opinions what CADOT will use to determine a overloaded truck. AS we see it certainly not a registered gvw or the mfg gvwr per this paste and copy email from a RV.net member (I don't remember the name) several years back. Its long but this will give the OP facts not rv website fiction about what numbers she can safely/legally use and what numbers are not used if the vehicle is ever stopped and weighed.

***This is in response to your electronic mail dated October 14, 2009.
First, allow me to apologize for the untimely response to your e-mail.
My staff recently received your request and by the date of your e-mail,
it appears to have been lost in the system.
You were requesting information pertaining to state laws limiting the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) and/or gross combined weight rating (GCWR) for fifth wheel and recreational vehicle owners. I have answered each of your questions
in the order asked.

Q: “Many of the owners travel over their tow vehicle GVWR and /or
GCWR. Are there any state laws against this? Or does the owner just
take the risk if they wish?”
A: The California Vehicle Code (CVC) does not contain a law that
specifically limits the amount of weight a vehicle may tow based on the
towing vehicle GVWR or GCWR. There are, however, laws that limit the
amount a vehicle may tow based on other criteria.

Section 21715(b) CVC prohibits a motor vehicle under 4,000 pounds
unladen from towing any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more gross
weight. This section would apply to smaller pickups and Sport Utility
Vehicles attempting to tow large trailers.

Section 1085(d) of Title 13 California Code of Regulations prohibits
the loading of tires above the maximum load rating marked on the tire,
or if unmarked the maximum load rating as specified in the applicable
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard, or in a publication furnished to
the public by the tire manufacturer. This would most likely happen in
the case of a pickup truck towing a large fifth wheel travel trailer, as
those types of trailers tend to transfer a larger portion of their
weight to the last axle of the towing unit causing that axle to exceed
the tire load limits.

Section 24002(a) CVC prohibits a vehicle or combination of vehicles
which is in an unsafe condition or which is not safely loaded and which
presents an immediate safety hazard from operating on the highway. This
section provides officers the authority to stop a vehicle or combination
of vehicles that is, in the officer’s opinion, unsafe to operate on
the highway. This section could be used to prohibit a driver from
continuing until the unsafe condition is fixed.

Q: “If they were to have an accident would they be cited?”

A: The officer investigating the collision would make the
determination whether to cite the driver based on evidence collected
during the investigation and the determination of the cause of the
collision.

Q: “Would their insurance company pay damages?”

A: Please contact your insurance company to obtain damage claim
information.

I trust this has adequately answered your questions. Should you desire
any further information, please contact Officer Ron Leimer, of my staff,
at (916) 445-1865. Sincerely,
S. B. DOWLING, Captain
Commander
Commercial Vehicle Section" *** (eoq)

Pretty much nails down the last axle/tire of the tow vehicle which in the OPs case is the F350 srw rear axle/tire load ratings will be used for weighing a overloaded vehicle.

BurbMan

Islip, Long Island

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Posted: 12/29/20 08:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Just look up the specs for trucks like yours 2015 F350 etc.


Here is the 2015 Ford RV and Trailer Towing Guide. Page 10 lists the ratings and while OP doesn't say what cab config she has that door sticker number is not far off from this guide.

Note to the OP, you are correct that weights vary considerably that's based a lot on floor plan. Most of the weight you load will be in the kitchen and fresh water tanks, and the location of those items drives a lot of the weight distribution.

For example a 5er with a front kitchen will see the loaded pin weight go up as you load the kitchen. Conversely a model with a rear kitchen will help you lighten the pin weight as you load up because you are adding weight behind the axles.

When you look at 5ers look at the floorplan and imagine where you will loading most of your stuff. Forward of the axle makes the pin heavier, rear of the axle makes the pin lighter.

In NY, you register non-commercial vehicles based on their empty weight. Non-comm vehicles are also exempt from scale stops. Nobody is checking to see if you weigh less than what you paid for because you don't pay based on loaded weight. You're not getting pulled over unless the officer sees an obviously unsafe condition like this:

[image]


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MFL

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Posted: 12/29/20 09:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^^^^picture above... just adding bags would make that much less obvious.

Jerry





Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 12/29/20 09:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BurbMan wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Just look up the specs for trucks like yours 2015 F350 etc.


Here is the 2015 Ford RV and Trailer Towing Guide. Page 10 lists the ratings and while OP doesn't say what cab config she has that door sticker number is not far off from this guide.

Note to the OP, you are correct that weights vary considerably that's based a lot on floor plan. Most of the weight you load will be in the kitchen and fresh water tanks, and the location of those items drives a lot of the weight distribution.

For example a 5er with a front kitchen will see the loaded pin weight go up as you load the kitchen. Conversely a model with a rear kitchen will help you lighten the pin weight as you load up because you are adding weight behind the axles.

When you look at 5ers look at the floorplan and imagine where you will loading most of your stuff. Forward of the axle makes the pin heavier, rear of the axle makes the pin lighter.

In NY, you register non-commercial vehicles based on their empty weight. Non-comm vehicles are also exempt from scale stops. Nobody is checking to see if you weigh less than what you paid for because you don't pay based on loaded weight. You're not getting pulled over unless the officer sees an obviously unsafe condition like this:

[image]


But that’s ratings for truck campers which is always less than the actual payload rating.
That towing guide doesn’t have regular payload ratings by model.

Bottom line, OP has a 10k gvw rated F350 by the specs he/she posted. And that rating is artificially low for that vehicle.
Not subjective, not debatable, just fact.


"Yes Sir, Oct 10 1888, Those poor school children froze to death in their tracks. They did not even find them until Spring. Especially hard hit were the ones who had to trek uphill to school both ways, with no shoes." -Bert A.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 12/29/20 09:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So I looked it up and even the lowest available “payload” on the chart for a 2015 srw F350 4x4 is 3100lbs for a cclb truck with 10k gvw rating.
So OPs truck must be super high optioned or something.
And same truck with “normal” 11,000 to 11,500gvw packages is 3700-4200 for CCLB trucks.

These inane discussions somehow suck me in every time as the vast amount of incorrect opinion surrounding this is astonishing!

TomG2

Central Illinois

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Posted: 12/29/20 11:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

...snip.....
These inane discussions somehow suck me in every time as the vast amount of incorrect opinion surrounding this is astonishing!


That's how many of us feel, on lots of topics.

BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 12/29/20 12:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Also note that tires used on a dually axle, must have the tires sidewall rating REDUCED

Have to check the tire OEM’s spec page for your tire. The tires that came with your dually already has the debating by the OEM, but if your are going to re-engineer by changing sizes/class/etc...you need to know this

Tirerack tires debated in a dually app

Quote:


Snip...

Light truck tires that are intended to be used in dual applications have two "Max Load" ratings branded on the tire's sidewall. This is because the load capacity rating of a tire serving duty in a "single" application is greater than the exact same tire being used in a "dual" application. For example, a LT235/85R16 Load Range E tire is rated to carry 3,042 pounds when inflated to 80 psi and used in a single application, but only 2,778 pounds when used in a dual tire application at the same inflation pressure.

This reduction in rated load capacity results in slightly larger tires being specified for the application that can better withstand the additional stresses experienced when a single tire goes flat and the three properly inflated remaining tires are required to temporarily carry the load at reduced speeds to remove the vehicle from immediate danger. This load reduction is not a concern for vehicles originally equipped with dual rear tires because the vehicle manufacturer factored it in when they specified the tire size for the vehicle.



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noonenosthis1

northern california

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Posted: 01/03/21 11:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Holy cow I have a headache now! Payload to tires to CHP! I would ask the DMV about that 10000 weight issue but I know I would get two different answers. As they write the tickets I will check with the CHP.

Now, we just spent 5 days at Jackson Rancheria, such a beautiful rv park. For the most part there were motorhomes (mostly diesel) and 5th wheels. Just a few trailers. We watched our neighbor hook up his 5th wheel. He was using Anderson lite. What hitch do you use? My husband, a retired truck driver, did not like the look of that Anderson lite.

Thanks

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