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 > A top to bottom look at green energy

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ksss

Eastern Idaho

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Posted: 12/27/20 11:21pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

At some point NA is going to have to wrap their head around Nuclear power. Love it, hate it, it is going to play a role in the future. There is no way we are going to serve all of our needs from Wind and Solar alone. Certainly in part, but never entirely. Our electrical needs are going to expand and likely by a lot, where is going to come from? We are running out of options. Nuclear is much improved, cleaner, more efficient and safer. Convincing Americans of that wont be easy, but necessary. The Nuk field is a major part of Eastern Idaho, a lot time, money goes into making it better.


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nickthehunter

Southgate, MI

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Posted: 12/28/20 05:38am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Anything the government has to incentivize or mandate to be viable makes bad economic sense. If it can't stand on it's own feet, it's a dead horse - except in this case, the taxpayers get to pay to prop up the dead horse. Sooner or later, it's all going to crash. To bad our kids will end up paying big time for our stupidity for the last 50 years.

valhalla360

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Posted: 12/28/20 06:09am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Zero Emissions is an outright lie and really has hurt more than helped the agenda as most logical people can see it's a lie. EVs do offer an option at least for a significant percentage of vehicles to reduce emissions but don't lie about it.

Another issue largely ignored is pavement. If we are successful in converting all the vehicles to battery electric, we will oil consumption by a huge amount. The vast majority of pavement is asphalt concrete...guess where the asphalt comes from.

You may have a wonderful new EV that runs on unicorn farts but no roads to drive it on.


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pitch

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Posted: 12/28/20 07:17am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Zero Emissions is an outright lie and really has hurt more than helped the agenda as most logical people can see it's a lie. EVs do offer an option at least for a significant percentage of vehicles to reduce emissions but don't lie about it.

Another issue largely ignored is pavement. If we are successful in converting all the vehicles to battery electric, we will oil consumption by a huge amount. The vast majority of pavement is asphalt concrete...guess where the asphalt comes from.

You may have a wonderful new EV that runs on unicorn farts but no roads to drive it on.



What? If we are no longer using petroleum for fuel, we would have a **** load to build big beautiful roads, the biggest most beautiful roads you have ever seen.
This whole discussion is bull ****. Mostly political opinion. No one has a clue where we will be in fifty years. Battery technology is in its infancy. Yes we have had batteries for hundreds of years,but only now has there been the impetus to improve.
Green energy is in its infancy, and we will get it right in the next couple of generations.
You are a fool if you deny anything that hasn't happened yet!

Bumpyroad

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Posted: 12/28/20 07:41am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

subscribing just to monitor this nonsense.
bumpy





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Angus, Ontario, Canada

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Posted: 12/28/20 08:21am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bumpyroad wrote:

subscribing just to monitor this nonsense.
bumpy


Got a spot on the sofa for me, how about I bring the popcorn, lol. Sun states seems to think the sun shines out of their (fill in the blank) alll day long and the wind blows hard at night (probably because they're full of that hot sunshine air). If everyone lined up all their electric gadgets and disposed of them, we would need less power to start off with. Now imagine everyone in (pick a sunny s/w state) and they all plugged in their EV's during a heat wave. Then they would all cry my A/C won't work. Ya just can't win it all.

valhalla360

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Posted: 12/28/20 08:23am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pitch wrote:

What? If we are no longer using petroleum for fuel, we would have a **** load to build big beautiful roads, the biggest most beautiful roads you have ever seen.
This whole discussion is bull ****. Mostly political opinion. No one has a clue where we will be in fifty years. Battery technology is in its infancy. Yes we have had batteries for hundreds of years,but only now has there been the impetus to improve.
Green energy is in its infancy, and we will get it right in the next couple of generations.
You are a fool if you deny anything that hasn't happened yet!


So where exactly will the asphalt for the roads come from? Right now probably 70-80% of lane miles are asphalt (and portland cement concrete isn't exactly a green product).

Nothing political about it. What will these big beautiful roads be built from?

wapiticountry

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Posted: 12/28/20 08:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

I hate the term green power. Some forms of power generation produce less pollution than others. Moving to natural gas in the interim is an improvement over coal.

The wind power and bird kill thing is a myth. The Brits have replaced much of their coal power with wind.

Ice cars and EV's both are made out of aluminum, steel, plastic etc. Is there more mining involved in an ICE than an EV?

All forms of transportation pollute. Vehicles without tailpipes contribute less to air pollution and poor air quality then vehicles with tail pipes. Important in big cities.

Local solar generation will play a significant role in powering vehicles. The average commute takes 6- 8 KW in an EV. Daytime charging with covered solar parking areas can look after significant amounts of the power needed to power EV's.

The resistance to EV's will fade away as more people test drive them.

I don't believe there is a real need to legislate light cars and trucks off the market...even though it is happening all over the world. In 20 years, no one is going to want a clunky stinky high maintenance vehicle that can't be fueled at home.

In 20 years there will be a lot less gas stations in the world. Every single day there are about 3000 new vehicles hitting the road without gas tanks. That will be 6000 a day in two years...and so on and so on.

All the above JMHO.

Cheers.
Those high speed trains need something called "Rails". I am all for those trains as long as the rails do not come within earshot of my home, which makes me just like every other person on the planet.
California is the perfect example of why trains will never work. The state started a bullet train project to link LA with San Francisco in 2008. It is now $80 Billion dollars (that's an 8 followed by 10 zeros) over budget on the first segment which will run from Bakersfield to Merced (two garden spots if I do say so myself). They plan to complete that 171 mile first segment in 2028, meaning they are completing 8.5 miles a year. If that was the pace of building the transcontinental railroad (1912 miles, started in 1863) your grandchildren could have witnessed the driving of the golden spike in 2088. They have not obtained the necessary land in either LA or San Francisco (of course land is cheap in those areas, so that won't be a budgetary concern).

And that is only the rail line costs. On top of that you need to build out terminals, parking lots, interconnected transportation from the hubs etc. The bullet train is only going to get you from point A to point B, not the billions of destinations in between and beyond.

Going to the train hub is going to be no different than going to the airport. You will still need to have security checkpoints, loading and unloading procedures, baggage handling etc. The trains will need to be serviced and cleaned between runs. It will basically be flying without leaving the ground with all the hassles that entails with all the added costs of railways versus free sky.

Reisender

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Posted: 12/28/20 09:40am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wapiticountry wrote:

Reisender wrote:

I hate the term green power. Some forms of power generation produce less pollution than others. Moving to natural gas in the interim is an improvement over coal.

The wind power and bird kill thing is a myth. The Brits have replaced much of their coal power with wind.

Ice cars and EV's both are made out of aluminum, steel, plastic etc. Is there more mining involved in an ICE than an EV?

All forms of transportation pollute. Vehicles without tailpipes contribute less to air pollution and poor air quality then vehicles with tail pipes. Important in big cities.

Local solar generation will play a significant role in powering vehicles. The average commute takes 6- 8 KW in an EV. Daytime charging with covered solar parking areas can look after significant amounts of the power needed to power EV's.

The resistance to EV's will fade away as more people test drive them.

I don't believe there is a real need to legislate light cars and trucks off the market...even though it is happening all over the world. In 20 years, no one is going to want a clunky stinky high maintenance vehicle that can't be fueled at home.

In 20 years there will be a lot less gas stations in the world. Every single day there are about 3000 new vehicles hitting the road without gas tanks. That will be 6000 a day in two years...and so on and so on.

All the above JMHO.

Cheers.
Those high speed trains need something called "Rails". I am all for those trains as long as the rails do not come within earshot of my home, which makes me just like every other person on the planet.
California is the perfect example of why trains will never work. The state started a bullet train project to link LA with San Francisco in 2008. It is now $80 Billion dollars (that's an 8 followed by 10 zeros) over budget on the first segment which will run from Bakersfield to Merced (two garden spots if I do say so myself). They plan to complete that 171 mile first segment in 2028, meaning they are completing 8.5 miles a year. If that was the pace of building the transcontinental railroad (1912 miles, started in 1863) your grandchildren could have witnessed the driving of the golden spike in 2088. They have not obtained the necessary land in either LA or San Francisco (of course land is cheap in those areas, so that won't be a budgetary concern).

And that is only the rail line costs. On top of that you need to build out terminals, parking lots, interconnected transportation from the hubs etc. The bullet train is only going to get you from point A to point B, not the billions of destinations in between and beyond.

Going to the train hub is going to be no different than going to the airport. You will still need to have security checkpoints, loading and unloading procedures, baggage handling etc. The trains will need to be serviced and cleaned between runs. It will basically be flying without leaving the ground with all the hassles that entails with all the added costs of railways versus free sky.


Yah. I know nothing about bullet train projects in the US. Sounds like it will never happen though.

We have travelled tens of thousands of kilometers on Bullet trains though in various countries in the world. Definitely beats the heck out of air travel. Much quicker on and off and the train stops right downtown. No long ride from the Airport. If you factor in all the check in procedures and baggage pick up hassles we find that generally it takes about the same time to travel from Sevilla to Madrid by AVE as it does by plane. And a lot more comfortable. Nice scenery. Not cramped in.

But yep. Different society. Don't know how it would work in the USA. From what you say sounds like it it never will.

Cheers

azdryheat

Tucson, AZ

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Posted: 12/28/20 09:58am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I like the cartoon where the electric car owner is plugged into the charging station that is ultimately tied into a coal-fired power plant where the electricity is generated. Doesn't sound too green to me.


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