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valhalla360

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Posted: 12/28/20 01:34pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


So where exactly will the asphalt for the roads come from? Right now probably 70-80% of lane miles are asphalt (and portland cement concrete isn't exactly a green product).

Nothing political about it. What will these big beautiful roads be built from?


India is having good success with recycling plastic for roads.


First, the plastic is not the binder but an aggregate replacement (it replaces some of the sand and gravel). (They do similar with ground up tires)

Second, plastic is made from....crude oil. While there is a small amount made from plant sources, it generally doesn't have good long term durability. In fact it's promoted based on the fact that it breaks down fairly quickly...not so great for a road where you are shooting for a 20-30yr lifespan.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 12/28/20 01:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Yah. I know nothing about bullet train projects in the US. Sounds like it will never happen though.

We have travelled tens of thousands of kilometers on Bullet trains though in various countries in the world. Definitely beats the heck out of air travel. Much quicker on and off and the train stops right downtown. No long ride from the Airport. If you factor in all the check in procedures and baggage pick up hassles we find that generally it takes about the same time to travel from Sevilla to Madrid by AVE as it does by plane. And a lot more comfortable. Nice scenery. Not cramped in.

But yep. Different society. Don't know how it would work in the USA. From what you say sounds like it it never will.

Cheers


High speed rail works great in the 150-300mile range connecting dense population centers.

The rails for high speed rail have much higher tolerances compared to freight and they are typically fully fenced off and grade separated from cross roads. That all adds up to very high costs, so you really need a lot of travelers to justify the cost.

Much above 300 miles, you start needing multiple connections for most routes and any speed comparability to air starts to lose out. If you look at Europe, longer routes are dominated by the low cost airlines much more so than rail. Very few people will go Naples to Oslo by rail.

What would make sense in the USA would be a linked air/rail system. It would never pass political muster but functionally it would be a big improvement:
- Major cities would have large hub airports.
- Small commuter flights of under say 200 miles would be prohibited.
- Rail lines radiating out from the hub airports would service the surrounding minor cities.
- You would get a combined rail/air ticket and luggage would be checked when you get on the train.

Because most rail routes would only be an hour or two (160 miles at 80mph), you wouldn't need high speed on most rail routes which drastically cuts cost and complications of implementing. Also by the time you factor in loading, taxi-ing and such with a plane, there really wouldn't be time lost.

A side benefit is you now have a functional regional rail system that could support regional rail only trips at a low cost. With that built out, you could consider high speed rail between key hub airports that aren't too far apart.

But as I said, no way it would fly politically.

2112

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Posted: 12/28/20 01:55pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

2112 wrote:

I found THIS interesting. They use excess wind energy to pump water up a mountain into a reservoir. Then they release the water into a hydrogeneration system when wind and solar is low. Of course this only works at a small scale in certain locations, but it's one way to store wind or solar energy.


Old news.
This thread is 4 pages of Old News [emoticon]
Has there been any major breakthroughs in alternative energy in the past 6 years?


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BenK

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:02pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Re-read...and understand what “Pre-embryonic” means...

Nano-diamond self-charging batteries could disrupt energy as we know it

newatlas.com wrote:

California company NDB says its nano-diamond batteries will absolutely upend the energy equation, acting like tiny nuclear generators.

They will blow any energy density comparison out of the water, lasting anywhere from a decade to 28,000 years without ever needing a charge.

They will offer higher power density than lithium-ion.

They will be nigh-on indestructible and totally safe in an electric car crash.

And in some applications, like electric cars, they stand to be considerably cheaper than current lithium-ion packs despite their huge advantages.


Still highly debatable...and again “pre-embryonic”, but that is where most great break through comes from...just an idea...

The German’s or another European inventor helped reduce the rubber tires in landfill/oceans/etc by grinding up old tires and use that in the asphalt mixture for paved roads.

Extended the useful life of asphalt roads by having a higher elastic material so the pavement wouldn’t crack as easily. Coefficient of friction was also good.

Down side, it still has decomposing tire dust to deal with. There is a bacteria that consumes the tire road dust...few know of this






agesilaus wrote:

Quote:

That nugget produces tiny amounts electricity and has a half life in the hundreds to thousand years


Let me clear up your understanding of radioactive half life. Did you know that bananas contain a good amount of radioactive potassium 40? But you can safely eat bananas. If you ate the same amount of Cobalt 60 in your hand it would kill you. Both radioactive so what is the difference. K-40 has a half life of 1,250,000,000 years, Co-60 has a half life of 5.6 years (IIRC). One is death, the other not. The shorter the half life the more dangerous a material is, generally.
This is why the radioactive waste will kill people a hundred thousand years from now is mostly BS. Reactor waste is a mix of elements. Some with a very short half life and thus very dangerous. For example Ba-139 is present in that waste and it has a half life of 83 minutes. A speck od Ba-139 would kill you right there. But you can generally assume that almost all of an isotope is gone in 5 half life's. Meaning that in 8 hours that Ba 139 is gone. The dangerous short half live stuff is gone in 100 years. !000 years from now you half long half life material that isn't that hazardous and 10,000 years from now you can figure what is left. Stuff with a half life longer than 2000 years.No as to your carbon enclosed hot stuff, it would not do a thing for a gram of Ba 139, it would still kill you right there. For a gram of Th-230 you would be fine, it has a HA of 75000 years. But you's get very little energy from it.



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pianotuna

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:08pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


So where exactly will the asphalt for the roads come from? Right now probably 70-80% of lane miles are asphalt (and portland cement concrete isn't exactly a green product).

Nothing political about it. What will these big beautiful roads be built from?


India is having good success with recycling plastic for roads.


First, the plastic is not the binder but an aggregate replacement (it replaces some of the sand and gravel). (They do similar with ground up tires)

Second, plastic is made from....crude oil. While there is a small amount made from plant sources, it generally doesn't have good long term durability. In fact it's promoted based on the fact that it breaks down fairly quickly...not so great for a road where you are shooting for a 20-30yr lifespan.


This article is from 2016 so the road is now 18 years old. "Jambulingam Street, Chennai, is a local legend. The tar road in the bustling Nungambakkam area has weathered a major flood, several monsoons, recurring heat waves and a steady stream of cars, trucks and auto rickshaws without showing the usual signs of wear and tear. Built in 2002, it has not developed the mosaic of cracks, potholes or craters that typically make their appearance after it rains. Holding the road together is an unremarkable material: a cheap, polymer glue made from shredded waste plastic."

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-........ic-transport-environment-pollution-waste


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agesilaus

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:10pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

2112 wrote:

I found THIS interesting. They use excess wind energy to pump water up a mountain into a reservoir. Then they release the water into a hydrogeneration system when wind and solar is low. Of course this only works at a small scale in certain locations, but it's one way to store wind or solar energy.


Well most of the good sites for pumped storage are in Cali and they won't even build new reservoirs to prevent their periodic droughts the certainly won't build them for this project. The last reservoir built was during the reign of Governor Brown, not gov. moonbeam, his father back in the early 1960's. That's 60 years ago more or less.


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Me Again

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

Reisender wrote:

I hate the term green power. Some forms of power generation produce less pollution than others. Moving to natural gas in the interim is an improvement over coal.

The wind power and bird kill thing is a myth. The Brits have replaced much of their coal power with wind.

Ice cars and EV's both are made out of aluminum, steel, plastic etc. Is there more mining involved in an ICE than an EV?

All forms of transportation pollute. Vehicles without tailpipes contribute less to air pollution and poor air quality then vehicles with tail pipes. Important in big cities.

Local solar generation will play a significant role in powering vehicles. The average commute takes 6- 8 KW in an EV. Daytime charging with covered solar parking areas can look after significant amounts of the power needed to power EV's.

The resistance to EV's will fade away as more people test drive them.

I don't believe there is a real need to legislate light cars and trucks off the market...even though it is happening all over the world. In 20 years, no one is going to want a clunky stinky high maintenance vehicle that can't be fueled at home.

In 20 years there will be a lot less gas stations in the world. Every single day there are about 3000 new vehicles hitting the road without gas tanks. That will be 6000 a day in two years...and so on and so on.

All the above JMHO.

Cheers.
Those high speed trains need something called "Rails". I am all for those trains as long as the rails do not come within earshot of my home, which makes me just like every other person on the planet.
California is the perfect example of why trains will never work. The state started a bullet train project to link LA with San Francisco in 2008. It is now $80 Billion dollars (that's an 8 followed by 10 zeros) over budget on the first segment which will run from Bakersfield to Merced (two garden spots if I do say so myself). They plan to complete that 171 mile first segment in 2028, meaning they are completing 8.5 miles a year. If that was the pace of building the transcontinental railroad (1912 miles, started in 1863) your grandchildren could have witnessed the driving of the golden spike in 2088. They have not obtained the necessary land in either LA or San Francisco (of course land is cheap in those areas, so that won't be a budgetary concern).

And that is only the rail line costs. On top of that you need to build out terminals, parking lots, interconnected transportation from the hubs etc. The bullet train is only going to get you from point A to point B, not the billions of destinations in between and beyond.

Going to the train hub is going to be no different than going to the airport. You will still need to have security checkpoints, loading and unloading procedures, baggage handling etc. The trains will need to be serviced and cleaned between runs. It will basically be flying without leaving the ground with all the hassles that entails with all the added costs of railways versus free sky.


Yah. I know nothing about bullet train projects in the US. Sounds like it will never happen though.

We have travelled tens of thousands of kilometers on Bullet trains though in various countries in the world. Definitely beats the heck out of air travel. Much quicker on and off and the train stops right downtown. No long ride from the Airport. If you factor in all the check in procedures and baggage pick up hassles we find that generally it takes about the same time to travel from Sevilla to Madrid by AVE as it does by plane. And a lot more comfortable. Nice scenery. Not cramped in.

But yep. Different society. Don't know how it would work in the USA. From what you say sounds like it it never will.

Cheers


"Don't know how it would work in the USA."

We are our own worst enemy! We are to divided and bullheaded to do much right anymore. Kind of glad we get off the planet in another decade or two. At some point we may figure out the letting greedy corporations drive are decisions is not the best long term plan.


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time2roll

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

So where exactly will the asphalt for the roads come from? Right now probably 70-80% of lane miles are asphalt (and portland cement concrete isn't exactly a green product).

Nothing political about it. What will these big beautiful roads be built from?
Does making asphalt roads include burning the tar or can it just be mixed with the aggregate and rolled out?


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stickdog

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:23pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One word, geothermal. I vote nuclear but the wife yells at me when I say it. Her, where can we dispose of the waste.


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Me Again

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Posted: 12/28/20 02:38pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

2112 wrote:

I found THIS interesting. They use excess wind energy to pump water up a mountain into a reservoir. Then they release the water into a hydrogeneration system when wind and solar is low. Of course this only works at a small scale in certain locations, but it's one way to store wind or solar energy.


Old news. There's a big one on Lake Michigan that's several decades old.

The problem is there are limited locations where it makes sense. Electric storage is still a huge issue.


Europe has been pump water back up mountains for decades, it is done at night when power demand is lower. My father saw it in the early 1950's. At Grand Coulee Dam in Eastern Washington some of the water pumped up and stored in Banks Lake can be used a second time to create electricity. The rest is used for irrigation of crops.

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