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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2021 Cummins 1075 lbft peak torque at 1356 rpm

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Bionic Man

Colorado

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Posted: 12/30/20 06:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

Your thinking the torque is 1075 lbft from 1356 to 1800 rpm, then drops to 807 lbft by the time the engine hits 2800 rpm .... maybe, I hope your right but I'm not convinced. I wish they would publish torque curves.

Dude, are you trying to become the new fish? Why do you wish they would publish a torque curve? You aren't buying anything but a Ford, your screen name says so. Why do you constantly create and post in Ram threads? Are you that bored?


Beat me to the punch. There is as much uncertainty in what he will buy as there is with the troller.

I'm not saying that being brand loyal is a bad thing. If I were in the market for a truck right now, I wouldn't even cross shop, I KNOW what I would buy. It would be disingenuous for me, or those two, to pretend otherwise.


2012 RAM 3500 Laramie Longhorn DRW CC 4x4 Max Tow, Cummins HO, 60 gallon RDS aux fuel tank, Reese 18k Elite hitch
2003 Dodge Ram 3500 QC SB 4x4 Cummins HO NV5600 with Smarty JR, Jacobs EB (sold)
2002 Gulf Stream Sea Hawk 29FRB with Honda EV6010

RoyJ

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Posted: 12/30/20 06:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

^^^^ You may be right that developing peak torque down at 1356 rpm may indicate the new power curve has potential for better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see if that’s the case. But, imagine pulling a heavy high profile trailer into a stiff wind or up a slight grade were 277 hp is required, Your right foot would be through the floor board and you’re in 6th gear at 1356 rpm. I can’t imagine a 430 hp engine being programmed to ever run down at such a low rpm at full throttle when it is only capable of 277 hp at that rpm. You are probably right though, the 2021 will likely hold onto the top gears a little longer to make use of the torque at lower rpms for fuel efficiency. The big diesels in the semis do create maximum torque at very low rpm but they are still producing close to maximum power at that rpm as well. The Cummins x15 for instance can be ordered with 400 to 500 hp at an engine rpm of 1700. It has a peak torque of 1850 rpm. If that peak torque is produced at 1000 rpm the engine is still putting out up to 88% of rated power. Even with the 500 hp engine a torque rating at 1000 rpm is at about 60% of rated engine speed.... so it is a meaningful number.


An X15 economy at max tune (500 hp) makes peak torque (1850) starting at 950 rpm. That's 335 hp, or 67% of peak hp.

That's splitting hairs vs the 64.4% of peak hp the Ram makes at peak torque.

I'm willing to bet the ECU is tuned so you can achieve peak torque without commanding 100% throttle position, maybe via the cruise control. This way, it's more efficient to make 277 hp @ 1300 rpm than it is at 2000+ rpm and partial torque output.

Cummins12V98

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Posted: 12/30/20 09:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

Your thinking the torque is 1075 lbft from 1356 to 1800 rpm, then drops to 807 lbft by the time the engine hits 2800 rpm .... maybe, I hope your right but I'm not convinced. I wish they would publish torque curves.

Dude, are you trying to become the new fish? Why do you wish they would publish a torque curve? You aren't buying anything but a Ford, your screen name says so. Why do you constantly create and post in Ram threads? Are you that bored?


They are closet RAM guys. [emoticon]


2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
37,800# GCVWR "Towing Beast"

"HeavyWeight" B&W RVK3600

2016 MobileSuites 39TKSB3 highly "Elited" In the stable

2007.5 Mobile Suites 36 SB3 29,000# Combined SOLD

4x4ord

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Posted: 12/30/20 10:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

Your thinking the torque is 1075 lbft from 1356 to 1800 rpm, then drops to 807 lbft by the time the engine hits 2800 rpm .... maybe, I hope your right but I'm not convinced. I wish they would publish torque curves.

Dude, are you trying to become the new fish? Why do you wish they would publish a torque curve? You aren't buying anything but a Ford, your screen name says so. Why do you constantly create and post in Ram threads? Are you that bored?


Actually, I am kind of bored. I would appreciate it if Ford, GM and Ram all published torque curves because it interests me. I have owned 3 Fords; 3 GMs; and 1 Ram. I hated the Ram but that was back in the day when they were noisy, smelly, rough riding, lumber wagons that handled like a grocery carts. I will likely be getting a new Ford again but only because I haven't found a GM Denali or Ram Limited for less money than what Ford has quoted me for their Platinum. I don't keep my trucks long .... I'm not getting married to it. If I bought a Ram and didn't like it, I'd have no problem selling it 6 months or a year later and trying out a GM.


2017 F350 SRW Platinum short box 4x4.
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larry barnhart

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Posted: 12/30/20 10:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

that low of rpm's probably will be higher to get up the mountain faster for most fifth pullers. Just my thinking only with no facts. chevman


chevman
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4x4ord

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Posted: 12/30/20 10:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

^^^^ You may be right that developing peak torque down at 1356 rpm may indicate the new power curve has potential for better fuel economy. It will be interesting to see if that’s the case. But, imagine pulling a heavy high profile trailer into a stiff wind or up a slight grade were 277 hp is required, Your right foot would be through the floor board and you’re in 6th gear at 1356 rpm. I can’t imagine a 430 hp engine being programmed to ever run down at such a low rpm at full throttle when it is only capable of 277 hp at that rpm. You are probably right though, the 2021 will likely hold onto the top gears a little longer to make use of the torque at lower rpms for fuel efficiency. The big diesels in the semis do create maximum torque at very low rpm but they are still producing close to maximum power at that rpm as well. The Cummins x15 for instance can be ordered with 400 to 500 hp at an engine rpm of 1700. It has a peak torque of 1850 rpm. If that peak torque is produced at 1000 rpm the engine is still putting out up to 88% of rated power. Even with the 500 hp engine a torque rating at 1000 rpm is at about 60% of rated engine speed.... so it is a meaningful number.


An X15 economy at max tune (500 hp) makes peak torque (1850) starting at 950 rpm. That's 335 hp, or 67% of peak hp.

That's splitting hairs vs the 64.4% of peak hp the Ram makes at peak torque.

I'm willing to bet the ECU is tuned so you can achieve peak torque without commanding 100% throttle position, maybe via the cruise control. This way, it's more efficient to make 277 hp @ 1300 rpm than it is at 2000+ rpm and partial torque output.



It would be more efficient .... I could see there being a possibility that while on cruise the engine could command 100% throttle at 1356 rpm without initiating a shift. And maybe the torque curve is flat from 1350 to 1800 rpm.

valhalla360

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Posted: 12/31/20 06:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Technologically...sort of...I mean semi engines have been able to beat that for many years.

In practical terms, once you can drag a 20k lb trailer up a steep grade without losing any speed or the engine struggling...it becomes mostly about who bought the bigger codpiece.


Our trucks still can't tow a 20k trailer up a steep grade at 65 mph. I can pull my 16k trailer up a 7% grade at about 50 mph with my 2017 Powerstroke.


Odd, I see lot of big 5th wheels racing up grades pretty darn fast.

Of course, as mentioned by others, peak torque at 1350rpm doesn't help generate HP which is what determines how fast you can climb a grade.


Tammy & Mike
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4x4ord

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Posted: 12/31/20 08:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^^^^ To pull 7% grades at 65 mph with a 20k trailer in tow we need over 550 HP. To make that kind of power at 2100 rpm we need about 1400 lbft of torque. So maybe when the hybrid technology hits the HD pickup models we’ll be there.

FishOnOne

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Posted: 12/31/20 08:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

Your thinking the torque is 1075 lbft from 1356 to 1800 rpm, then drops to 807 lbft by the time the engine hits 2800 rpm .... maybe, I hope your right but I'm not convinced. I wish they would publish torque curves.

Dude, are you trying to become the new fish? Why do you wish they would publish a torque curve? You aren't buying anything but a Ford, your screen name says so. Why do you constantly create and post in Ram threads? Are you that bored?


Actually, I am kind of bored. I would appreciate it if Ford, GM and Ram all published torque curves because it interests me. I have owned 3 Fords; 3 GMs; and 1 Ram. I hated the Ram but that was back in the day when they were noisy, smelly, rough riding, lumber wagons that handled like a grocery carts. I will likely be getting a new Ford again but only because I haven't found a GM Denali or Ram Limited for less money than what Ford has quoted me for their Platinum. I don't keep my trucks long .... I'm not getting married to it. If I bought a Ram and didn't like it, I'd have no problem selling it 6 months or a year later and trying out a GM.


I see the Minute Man Moderator is still sensitive about anyone talking about his brand, but I've never seen him or the other Minute Man Moderator say anything when others are discussing issues with the other brands. Having said that these Minute Men Moderators have absolutely zero credibility on this forum or even other forums as their actions are loud and clear.

Having said that I enjoy discussing all the brands attributes as I enjoy the towing experience when traveling, meet people who also tow heavy loads and get to hear their experience and people who use their trucks to make a living, and catching up with my cousin who's a diesel tech who's worked on both Ford and Ram diesels and is currently working in the Ford shop. I'm part owner of a farm/ranch family business and we own 2 Dodge Rams and 2 Fords (just picked up a Ford last month) and I see first hand how these trucks hold up to some serious work. There is absolutely nothing wrong discussing a engines torque curve and the changes to the engine to get there unless your the Minute Man Moderator for only your brand.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
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wilber1

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Posted: 12/31/20 03:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

4x4ord wrote:


Your thinking the torque is 1075 lbft from 1356 to 1800 rpm, then drops to 807 lbft by the time the engine hits 2800 rpm .... maybe, I hope your right but I'm not convinced. I wish they would publish torque curves.


Sounds about right. When Cummins went from the 650 Lb Ft to 800 Lb Ft in 2011. Both hit peak torque at 1600 and made the same peak 350 HP at 2800. The 650 torque curve remained flat until peak HP and the 800's torque gradually declined until it made the same peak HP at 2800 RPM.


"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC

2011 RAM 3500 SRW
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