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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > FOB keys and theft

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ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

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Posted: 02/10/21 10:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

keep your tin foil hat on,

Can it be done, Yes, on SOME cars, I have two that use an IR sensor no RF, try to intercept that!!!

And then even if they did intercept my cars that use RF, all they could do is open the car. Starting the car needs an RFID chip that does NOT transmit, and must be near the ignition to allow the car to start, along with in most cases needing a key.

I've got thousands of things I'm going to worry about before someone intercepting my car signal!!!

Meanwhile I'll leave my tin foil hat in a faraday shield in the attic! something for the kids to wonder about.

and geting a key for my vehicles requires going to a dealer with proof of ownership, getting picture taken, signature taken and kept on file and then waiting at least 24hours for a key to arrive.

Even virtually all locksmiths around here IF they can duplicate the chip key require proof of ownership, picture etc. if they are going from VIN number instead of a key to duplicate.

And in the highly highly unlikely case someone did manage to get my vehicles, I can track the location of any of them and police can then follow and if needed continually reduce the speed allowed by the vehicle till it is down to less than 5 mph.

I'm not worried.


2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
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path1

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Posted: 02/10/21 11:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

After reading this post and three or four other articles...couldn't I just install a hidden toggle switch into starter wire?

aguablanco

Mesa, AZ

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Posted: 02/11/21 12:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

deltabravo wrote:

Someday we will all need a faraday bag to store our tin-foil hat


Ain't that the truth. The signal sent by fobs is actually encoded computer data that is actually encoded. The radio signal is nothing but a carrier. This type of story was often told in regards to garage door openers. Something about a code grabber stealing the transmission and recording it for future use. I'm not saying they don't exist, at some level, but in over 25 years as a garage door contractor I never saw one. And believe me, I looked. While it may be worth the cost of R&D for such a device to steal a million dollar plus motor home or a high end sports car,the thieves that would steal a normal car or trailer will use much cruder methods to achieve their goal.
RichH


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rhagfo

Portland, OR

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Posted: 02/11/21 12:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

deltabravo wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

That kill the convince


What does "kill the convince" mean?

Convenience!
Dropped a couple letters.


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ronharmless

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Posted: 02/11/21 05:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I ordered my faraday bag today on amazon, it came with two free tin foil hats (in the shape of a pyramid). Got it all covered now!

valhalla360

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Posted: 02/11/21 05:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

QCMan wrote:

If they boost the signal to get in and start it , won't it shut off when it gets out of range? Or is that the reason they go slow so the owner can run behind keeping it running?


Shush...don't mess with a good conspiracy theory.


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dougrainer

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Posted: 02/11/21 09:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have had 6 FOB cars in the past 20 years. ALL require that the FOB RF signal be CLOSE to start and run. The Lexus and Lincoln required the KEY to be in the Ignition with the constant FOB RF sending the signal to START and RUN the car. My other FOB's that have NO KEY, require that the FOB be within a few feet of the Dash Push Button and you must push the Brake Pedal while pushing the Start Button. Just unlocking the Auto with a stolen or hacked RF signal will not get the Auto started. Doug

PS, I leave tinfoil draped over all the headrests and have never had a problem. Make sure you leave the Shiny side UP[emoticon]

thomasmnile

Lake Mary, FL

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Posted: 02/11/21 09:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When we bought our 2019 Highlander with the gee whiz keyless entry/ignition I noted the owners' manual recommended to never stick the fob in the same pocket with a cell phone (or in a purse if a phone is carried in the purse.

What's the story? RF from one device to the other, Russian hackers, microwave the family jewels? [emoticon]

ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

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Posted: 02/11/21 10:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

dougrainer wrote:

I have had 6 FOB cars in the past 20 years. ALL require that the FOB RF signal be CLOSE to start and run. The Lexus and Lincoln required the KEY to be in the Ignition with the constant FOB RF sending the signal to START and RUN the car. My other FOB's that have NO KEY, require that the FOB be within a few feet of the Dash Push Button and you must push the Brake Pedal while pushing the Start Button. Just unlocking the Auto with a stolen or hacked RF signal will not get the Auto started. Doug

PS, I leave tinfoil draped over all the headrests and have never had a problem. Make sure you leave the Shiny side UP[emoticon]


exactly!!!! Once at a gas station/grocery store DW decided to start getting groceries while I gassed up. Well, I didn't realize I didn't have the keys with me, only the one in her purse. About 50 feet away car warnings came on saying key was out of range and car would shut down. I had to yell at her to come back so I could finish getting gas.

Most people don't realize that the Fob functions of LOCKING UNLOCKING ETC. are completely INDEPENDENT of the function of STARTING the car. remote functions rely on a rolling code RF function, STARTING the car relies on close proximity RF ID with rolling code.

The fact that both are rolling codes, pretty much eliminates someone from intercepting the fob transmission and then getting into the car, let alone starting it.

I would like to see actual verifieable data of the number of times ANYONE has been able to intercept the signal from a car remote, then unlock the car, let alone drive it away. (other than some demonstration using exotic equipment costing way more than the car to show it is possible)


But the "tin foil hats" folks can go ahead and support and make rich the amazon faraday shield sellers.

* This post was edited 02/11/21 10:16am by ktmrfs *

Matt_Colie

Southeast Michigan

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Posted: 02/11/21 10:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I guess I have a near perfect automotive security system. I even leave the doors unlocked much of the time. Actually, I'm not sure how to lock them. I just carry the crank in my belt. [emoticon]

Matt


Matt & Mary Colie
A sailor, his bride and their black dog (one is waiting for us at the bridge) going to see some dry places that have Geocaches in a coach made the year we married.


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