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 > FOB keys and theft

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GoinThisAway

middle TN

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Posted: 07/11/21 10:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Interesting discussion. I've been driving through the entire key-to-keyFOB-to-keylessFOB evolution. In most auto thefts around here the vehicle is unlocked and oftentimes the "key" has been left in the car. For me its automatic to lock my car and take the "key" with me. Have wondered about the possibility of someone intercepting and using the signal from the keylessFOB for my car. These kind of discussions are good as they get one thinking and asking questions. There's a wide range of technology out there and misconceptions mixed with good info so its good to hash it all out, hopefully cordially. In the end, it's probably worthwhile to talk to a reputable local expert on your particular vehicle.

One additional story on a personalized auto theft prevention device. I owned a station wagon on which the wiring to the fuel pump, located in the rear, went bad. I never needed the rear windshield wiper so Dad rerouted that wire to the fuel pump. I thought it was neat to as this also served as an anti-theft device. All I had to do was turn off the rear wiper when I parked the car. If someone broke in, hot-wired it, and tried to drive off they wouldn't get far before it died and they were sure to then abandon the "piece of junk". Of course I forgot to turn the "rear wiper" on one time and found out exactly how far a thief would get [emoticon]


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azdryheat

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Posted: 07/11/21 11:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I didn't read all the previous pages but for me I'm not going to change my FOB use. I have excellent insurance to replace anything stolen. In fact I'm glad I don't use keys anymore.

Back in the 90's, here in Tucson, we were having many auto thefts committed by hoods who had master keys. You see, with all the cars made in Mexico some of the people down there somehow got ahold of the master keys from the factory. They'd then come up to Tucson and look for cars the master key might fit. They trolled the shopping malls and were pretty successful stealing our cars. We had an undercover detail that caught many of the thieves and soon the problem went away.

Actually it's no different with RV's. Myself, my co-workers, and pretty much every RV worker in the country all have access to master keys to pretty much every RV out there. Except Airstream trailers, they do not have master keys. But not to be alarmed, our keys do not work the deadbolts.


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deltabravo

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Posted: 07/11/21 11:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am fobless. My old school truck still doesn't have enough miles to warrant replacing it with one that has the new-fangled keyless start nonsense.

The truck might hit 75k miles this year.


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ktmrfs

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Posted: 07/12/21 10:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

deltabravo wrote:

I am fobless. My old school truck still doesn't have enough miles to warrant replacing it with one that has the new-fangled keyless start nonsense.

The truck might hit 75k miles this year.
'

Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

1) are much larger than a fob with a key
2) ends up in my pocket when driving instead of in the key slot
3) are more expensive to replace
4) no way to just have a spare Key

And after all that, don't seem to have any real advantage. yes the car unlocks when I walk up to it but that doesn't require keyless go, About the only advantage is that it's almost impossible to accidentally lock the key in the car.

At least one hybrid mfg have gotten smart, On our keyless go hybrid if the car is in electric mode with the engine off if you open the drivers door w/o turning the car off (keyless go) the engine comes on as a warning that you haven't turned the car off.


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JaxDad

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Posted: 07/12/21 10:11am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:



Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key



Spares are easy to obtain.

fj12ryder

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Posted: 07/12/21 10:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I thought it was a bit of a hassle to replace the fob, or have a spare made, and costly also. I'm referring to the keyless fobs. Which I really see no need for, just another gadget that serves little purpose, and adds expense.


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ktmrfs

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Posted: 07/12/21 11:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:



Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key



Spares are easy to obtain.


key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.

JaxDad

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Posted: 07/12/21 02:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:



Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key



Spares are easy to obtain.


key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.


Read my earlier post, I’ve had numerous RFID chips duplicated, cheap and easy to do.

ktmrfs

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Posted: 07/12/21 03:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:



Don't feel left out. I'm not a fan of the keyless go either. The fobs for my keyless go vehicles

.........

4) no way to just have a spare Key



Spares are easy to obtain.


key to open the door, yes, those are inexpensive, RFID key or a key to let you start the car, in Most cases nope, need a keyless go fob. even if the fob battery is dead, place the fob next to the keyless go to start, but no way to have a real key to start the car. There are/were a few exceptions, where there is a hidden slot for a RFID key to start the car. AFAIK all the keyless go systems also have a key in the fob to let you unlock the car, but that's about it. Early on keyless it was common to have a hidden key slot but most mfg have gone away with that since the FOB w/o a battery near the keyless go button is a work around to a spare key slot.


Read my earlier post, I’ve had numerous RFID chips duplicated, cheap and easy to do.



Many car mfg have gone away from a seperate RFID or similar chip in the fob, when the got away from a key with a chip and went completely to keyless go with no "emergency key" to start the car. The remote programming is in the IC in the fob that also controls the other functions. For those keys (I have several) key shops have the same comment. They have NO way of just programming anything other than a new fob that will start the car. they have access to fobs, and can program them, but they aren't inexpensive.

For those that still may have a Chip for the imobilizer in the fob, programming those, especially if they have a chip key as well is easy peasy and inexpensive. But those are rapidly going extinct.

As an ex design engineer I can see why they have gone to this process.
1) they aren't relying on a 3rd party chip and how long it will be made
2)_ don't need to mount it in the fob
3) adding this to an in house dedicated IC they have control over the mfg of (even if it is an outside foundry) is adding zip to mfg cost and reduces assembly costs
4) makes it much harder for someone to clone a key for theft

However it does mean no longer a low cost way of a backup. to bad they don't just offer a "spare" key option like in the past that is just a fob like device with blade key for the doors and no other functions that will just unlock and start the car

* This post was edited 07/12/21 04:06pm by ktmrfs *

Retired JSO

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Posted: 07/12/21 06:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Most new GM vehicles, additional fobs can be programmed in the car itself. I have a C7 Corvette and used this procedure to program my additional fob.
Fob Programming





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