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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Chevrolet exits all ICE production by 2035

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Reisender

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Posted: 03/08/21 07:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

Groover wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

time2roll wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

In 10/20/30 yrs, when they make duallies with 1000 kWh packs and 10 min charging, we go 100% electric. Simple as that!
I understand the 600 mile Semi that runs at 80,000 pounds will not have 1000kWh.


They should have 2000 kWh to do it comfortably.

600 miles is 10 hrs straight at AVERAGE of 60 mph. With 1000 kWh that's 100 kW a average, or 134hp. It takes a LOT more than 134 hp to move 80,000 lbs at an average of 60 mph (including hills).

Even with a 2000 kWh battery that's only 270 hp. Barely enough to maintain 60 mph on perfectly flat ground.


My motorhome with a similar frontal area to a semi gets about 11mpg at 70mph. The best that I can figure that is only about 140hp at 70mph or about 110hp at 60mph. The Tesla semi is probably has better aerodynamics than my motorhome. Barely enough power to maintain speed on level ground is more battery power than is needed. Yes, more power will be used to climb hills or accelerate but that energy will be recovered when going back down the hill or slowing down and I have never seen any vehicle run at max speed for 8 hours. This would indicate that a 1000kwh battery is pretty close to the mark.

The Tesla semi will have far more power available for hill climbing and acceleration than diesel power rigs. Tests show that it can go from 0-60mph in 20 seconds with a full load. I have never seen a diesel rig do it that quickly. That should help traffic flow better and make traveling more pleasant for all of us.


Plus, downtown deliveries with Electric heavy trucks will have much less impact on down town air quality. As cities outlaw vehicles with tail pipes in downtown cores trucks like these will have an advantage as no depot action is required switching between a diesel tractor and an electric tractor. Win win. Everybody likes good air quality.

RoyJ

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Posted: 03/08/21 11:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

Groover wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

time2roll wrote:

RoyJ wrote:

In 10/20/30 yrs, when they make duallies with 1000 kWh packs and 10 min charging, we go 100% electric. Simple as that!
I understand the 600 mile Semi that runs at 80,000 pounds will not have 1000kWh.


They should have 2000 kWh to do it comfortably.

600 miles is 10 hrs straight at AVERAGE of 60 mph. With 1000 kWh that's 100 kW a average, or 134hp. It takes a LOT more than 134 hp to move 80,000 lbs at an average of 60 mph (including hills).

Even with a 2000 kWh battery that's only 270 hp. Barely enough to maintain 60 mph on perfectly flat ground.


My motorhome with a similar frontal area to a semi gets about 11mpg at 70mph. The best that I can figure that is only about 140hp at 70mph or about 110hp at 60mph. The Tesla semi is probably has better aerodynamics than my motorhome. Barely enough power to maintain speed on level ground is more battery power than is needed. Yes, more power will be used to climb hills or accelerate but that energy will be recovered when going back down the hill or slowing down and I have never seen any vehicle run at max speed for 8 hours. This would indicate that a 1000kwh battery is pretty close to the mark.

The Tesla semi will have far more power available for hill climbing and acceleration than diesel power rigs. Tests show that it can go from 0-60mph in 20 seconds with a full load. I have never seen a diesel rig do it that quickly. That should help traffic flow better and make traveling more pleasant for all of us.


In city use, 1000 kWh might get you 600 miles, as there're a lot less aero loss, and a lot more regenerative braking.

However, the context here is freeway / linehaul, as most of us RV'ers rarely travel hundreds of miles in-town. (my original comment on EV duallies)

Weight does matter in the equation, both for rolling friction, and also because roads are rarely flat. I'm guessing your motorhome weighs a lot less than 80k. I won't assume the Tesla is better aero wise, as in real life commercial application you have a lot more varied trailers. You can't refuse a load on the flatbed just because it's not aerodynamic!

I've never doubted the power of the Tesla semi, just the highway range numbers don't add up unless the pack is huge. Remember, we're talking replacing a diesel tractors with up to 300 gallons on board, that's a lot of chemical energy compared to the typical sedan with 15 gallons of gasoline.

RoyJ

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Posted: 03/08/21 11:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Plus, downtown deliveries with Electric heavy trucks will have much less impact on down town air quality. As cities outlaw vehicles with tail pipes in downtown cores trucks like these will have an advantage as no depot action is required switching between a diesel tractor and an electric tractor. Win win. Everybody likes good air quality.


No doubt at all about that. All in-town applications, from food delivery to Translink, should be EVs.

I just think high hp long haul applications would be the last frontier for EVs, and it will be conquered, just more in the future.

Here's another way of looking at it: most of our newer city busses are hybrids now, but you'll never see it on tour coaches (Prevost, MCI, etc.) Because there's very little opportunity for energy re-capture at high speeds.

I've driven 50k lbs loaded Prevosts from Calgary and back many times, and used the jakes maybe once the whole trip (8% section on the Coq). All other times it's nearly foot to the floor (430hp Detroit).

philh

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Posted: 03/08/21 06:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.

Reisender

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Posted: 03/08/21 07:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

philh wrote:

raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.


Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.

time2roll

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Posted: 03/08/21 08:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

philh wrote:

Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.
The good part is EVs can be programmed to charge during the low demand period.
This actually helps to even out the load.


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Shal36

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Posted: 03/09/21 03:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

philh wrote:

raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.


Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.


https://theconversation.com/politically-........now-where-your-batteries-come-from-80886

Groover

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Posted: 03/09/21 07:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Plus, downtown deliveries with Electric heavy trucks will have much less impact on down town air quality. As cities outlaw vehicles with tail pipes in downtown cores trucks like these will have an advantage as no depot action is required switching between a diesel tractor and an electric tractor. Win win. Everybody likes good air quality.


No doubt at all about that. All in-town applications, from food delivery to Translink, should be EVs.

I just think high hp long haul applications would be the last frontier for EVs, and it will be conquered, just more in the future.

Here's another way of looking at it: most of our newer city busses are hybrids now, but you'll never see it on tour coaches (Prevost, MCI, etc.) Because there's very little opportunity for energy re-capture at high speeds.

I've driven 50k lbs loaded Prevosts from Calgary and back many times, and used the jakes maybe once the whole trip (8% section on the Coq). All other times it's nearly foot to the floor (430hp Detroit).


I have never seen a Prevost struggling to get up even the steepest hills. That would lead me to believe that they have a lot of throttle left on level ground.

But, let's just say that you are right and it does take 400hp to move a Prevost. That would take around 20 gallons per hour meaning that they only get about 3mpg. I found this statement online: "As a result, the average fleet-wide fuel economy of the trucks in the study was 7.28 mpg in 2017, up from 7.14 in 2016."

That indicates that semis use a lot less power than your Prevost does and I would guess that they are much heavier too. Add in regenerative braking and better streamlining then allow for other drags on the fuel economy of semis like idling and engines not well maintained and I believe that you would see mpg go up quite bit more.

Another factor is that I have not seen a Tesla shown with a bull guard or any trailer other than a streamlined box trailer. Open trailers like car haulers probably do suck up more power than box trailers do.

Maybe you just have a bad engine. I have heard others complain about the Detroit diesel being fuel guzzling weeklings. You would think that a 7 figure motorhome would come with an engine that could both climb hills and pass a few gas stations.

* This post was edited 03/09/21 10:46am by Groover *

Grit dog

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Posted: 03/09/21 09:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

philh wrote:

raw materials for batteries are currently strip mined in China and Africa, where they don't care about the environment.

Battery mfg can't keep up to current auto demand for batteries.

Then there's the electric grid. Many parts of the country struggle to supply enough electricity in peak demand periods.


Is it just EV batteries you don't like or the ones that are in your cell phone and lap top as well.

Teslas, Gigafactory in Nevada gets its lithium from an operation 300 kilometers away from the factory. Most raw materials can be sourced from within the continent and the US, Canadian and Mexican mining industries are all benefitting as a result of EV's in general.


No, I'm sure it's just the notion that the people who are blinded by the new shiny object don't necessarily consider all the upstream and downstream affects when promoting their personal agenda...


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nickthehunter

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Posted: 03/09/21 12:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lynnmor wrote:

I hope that I never get so totally obsessed with one thing that everything that I read or discuss involves that subject. I sure don't want lobbyists forcing their ideas on the general public.
I agree. Never the less, I don't understand why he's posting in the "Tow Vehicle" section; he's certainly not positing about Tow Vehicles. His posts would better belong in the Around the Campfire section; or maybe the can start a "Grocery Getter" section just for him.

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