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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Chevrolet exits all ICE production by 2035

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Reisender

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Posted: 03/09/21 01:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

nickthehunter wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:

I hope that I never get so totally obsessed with one thing that everything that I read or discuss involves that subject. I sure don't want lobbyists forcing their ideas on the general public.
I agree. Never the less, I don't understand why he's posting in the "Tow Vehicle" section; he's certainly not positing about Tow Vehicles. His posts would better belong in the Around the Campfire section; or maybe the can start a "Grocery Getter" section just for him.


Not sure I follow. People right now tow with Chevy gas vehicles. Many people tow with SUV’s or 1/2 tons or Vans etc. At some point in the future if they want to continue doing that with a Chevy they will be towing it with a vehicle without a tail pipe.

The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic.

fj12ryder

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Posted: 03/09/21 05:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.


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Posted: 03/09/21 05:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.


Disagree. Around here people tow with EV’s and there are a handful of manufacturers that will be producing 1/2 tons and SUV’s all with towing packages. And regardless, the article references 2035. Nothing wrong with discussing towing issues that will show up in the future.

Again, moderators can put it where they want. It’s still about towing.

RoyJ

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Posted: 03/09/21 06:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

I have never seen a Prevost struggling to get up even the steepest hills. That would lead me to believe that they have a lot of throttle left on level ground.

But, let's just say that you are right and it does take 400hp to move a Prevost. That would take around 20 gallons per hour meaning that they only get about 3mpg. I found this statement online: "As a result, the average fleet-wide fuel economy of the trucks in the study was 7.28 mpg in 2017, up from 7.14 in 2016."

That indicates that semis use a lot less power than your Prevost does and I would guess that they are much heavier too. Add in regenerative braking and better streamlining then allow for other drags on the fuel economy of semis like idling and engines not well maintained and I believe that you would see mpg go up quite bit more.

Another factor is that I have not seen a Tesla shown with a bull guard or any trailer other than a streamlined box trailer. Open trailers like car haulers probably do suck up more power than box trailers do.

Maybe you just have a bad engine. I have heard others complain about the Detroit diesel being fuel guzzling weeklings. You would think that a 7 figure motorhome would come with an engine that could both climb hills and pass a few gas stations.


Keep in mind this wasn't a luxury motorhome, it's a line-haul tour coach @ 430 hp. 1999 pre-EGR. At 1500 rpm, it's probably around 350 hp. I'm not WOT of course on flat ground, but I'd say anything above 2% grade I was definitely WOT @ 60+ mph.

On 6% grades, flat out I was 45 - 50 mph, near hp peak. Factor in a 20% loss from the Allison, that's reasonable (340 hp rwhp). Lifetime average mpg was 6.3 US mpg. A tour coach operates at higher speeds than fleet trucks, and we know hp goes up 8x when speed doubles. Cruising on flat was always 75 mph.

My main point: this is the least ideal application of EV. Due to high speeds, you get very little re-generation from braking. To make that worse, going uphill peukert factor is against us. No one knows for sure, but I don't believe 1000 kWh will be enough in real life commercial applications (I know it works hauling batteries for the Gigafactory). Like I said, in real life our loads aren't perfect aero trailers like the Tesla Semi test rigs.

I do believe in 10 years when battery tech progresses another 2 generations, and 2000 kWh packs are cheap, long haul EV Semis could be viable. Remember, many rigs have team drivers, we're talking near 24 hr days in Canada, with maybe 1 - 2 hours total charging time each day. In the meantime, city buses, delivery trucks, etc., makes much more sense.

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Posted: 03/09/21 06:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

People tow thousands of pound wagons with horses also, that doesn’t mean it’s practical, just means it’s possible. Would work out fine for getting a two week supply of groceries.

Lantley

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Posted: 03/09/21 06:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

"The mods can put it where they want. But it is ultimately a towing topic."

No, not really. It could be a towing topic in 10 or so years but right now it should be put in the "EV Speculation" forum. There are no EV tow vehicles that are actually real world useful, and don't appear to be around in the near, 5 years or less, future.

And if Chevy can't produce an EV tow vehicle, and Ford and Ram are still producing diesel/gas RV's, it would seem unlikely that Chevy will just bow out of a lucrative market. Of course it will depend on how lucrative that market is.

Some of you guys want to shoot the messenger because you don't want to hear the message. You can place this post under any forum you wish.
It doesn't change the fact that EV's are here and and are a total automotive game changer like nothing we have seen in our lifetime.
No they don't have it all figured out but Chevy is not the only company to proclaim they will stop making ICE vehicles.
Meanwhile rather than embracing the future many are denying the EV revolution is here.
Drive a Tesla you will believe. Prior to driving a Tesla I was no EV proponent. I am not looking to buy an EV and I am not a strong believer in climate change.
Nevertheless I took a joy ride in a buddy's Tesla and now I get it!. The ICE is obsolete. We no longer need all those moving parts, all the heat, all the exhaust to propel a vehicle. The EV has left the drawing board and is lose on the streets.
Can we take a 1000 mile trip? Or tow a 10K trailer? Currently we don't have all those answer but a lot of development will occur in 15 years.
I urge all you naysayers to step into the future and just check out a Tesla, there are a lot of bright minds on this forum and reading this thread that simply need to take a closer look at what is possible and happening with EV's right now. Once you take a non biased view of EV you will be excited about the future vs. denying that change is even possible.
Not only is it possible its already happening


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Posted: 03/09/21 08:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

No one said that change is not possible. The timelines are just being arbitrarily set and will change in the future. How many years is the Tesla semi behind schedule?


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Posted: 03/09/21 08:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Few people would doubt in Tesla's current application EVs are superior to IC.

What some of us, including myself, are saying is EVs aren't suitable for 100% of automotive applications ....... yet.

So, why not agree on EVs for 90% of daily use, and save ICs for the 10% use where they're currently good at?

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Posted: 03/09/21 08:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RoyJ wrote:

Few people would doubt in Tesla's current application EVs are superior to IC.

What some of us, including myself, are saying is EVs aren't suitable for 100% of automotive applications ....... yet.

So, why not agree on EVs for 90% of daily use, and save ICs for the 10% use where they're currently good at?
90%?? Still going to take some time even to replace 25% with EVs.


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Posted: 03/09/21 09:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

https://tflcar.com/2019/08/tesla-model-x-towing-loop-adventure-x/

Here's TFL's Model X towing a 5k lbs horse trailer. At 25:50, 30 miles in, their cruising average is 896 Wh/mile. 3.7 times more power than empty. I've never seen an IC truck get 3.7x worse mpg with a 5000 lbs trailer, that's what happens when an EV is so efficienty to begin witt.

I'd guess an 18k lbs toy hauler is at least 2x that amount, or 1.8 kWh / mile. For a 300 mile day of travel, that's 540 kWh pack.

Still don't see how an 80k lbs semi can go 600 miles on a 1,000 kWh pack.

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