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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 3/4 or 1 ton SUV ?

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RoyJ

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Posted: 03/01/21 02:00pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

APT wrote:

Grit, no half SUV made after 2013 has payload to support a family or 6+ and 1000 pounds of TW, regardless of "tow ratings" and engines/transmissions that are far more capable than my 3/4 ton. Van's are unpopular/unfashionable, but that does not make them less capable.

I understand the OP's request for 3 rows of seats and not needing the truck bed. Why pay for the truck bed if not going to use it? Except, that 3rw row of climate controlled comfort and storage costs even more and has less RV towing capability.


Even towing capable vans are on their last legs, thanks to the rise of fuel efficient Euro vans.

The GM and Nissan are the last of their kind. Both the Transit and Sprinter maxes out at 7500 lbs. If you have a family of 6, that's 6500 lbs. Plenty of payload, but short on power.

Even with the GM vans, a 6.6 Express can only tow 10k lbs. Compared to a 3/4 ton crewcab which can easily tow 15k lbs WITH a family of 6 on board.

valhalla360

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Posted: 03/01/21 02:33pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

kellem wrote:

Go look at the interior of the new Superdutys, it's mind boggling. You could easily haul 6 offensive linemen comfortably without the center console, no joke.


Nothing new. Back in the early 90's a professor would take a bunch of us to a conference in Washington (500mile drive) in his 4door F350. 5 college age 6 footers (plus the prof) and space wasn't an issue.


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Lantley

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Posted: 03/01/21 04:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mickeyfan0805 wrote:

kellem wrote:

Because it would be addressing a much smaller crowd as trailers don't consume as much payload compared to 5th wheels....tounge weight vs pin weight.

Full size pickup trucks have almost the same interior space as bigger SUVs but can be had with much more capability.

Having the need for a 3/4 or 1 ton pickup truck trumps not having the need for a bed.

If you prefer large SUVs, simply stay within it's capabilities.


This is all fine and well until you start considering the seating issues. As a family of 5 with a dog, we limped along with our 2006 HD Suburban (with the 8.1) as long as we could. Pick-ups just don't lend themselves well to travel for families of more than 4. When we finally ditched our Suburban just over a year ago, we went with a pick-up, but are now much more limited in what we can do. The dog has to be left behind if we leave the state, travel days need to be shortened because we have 3 kids (12-16) sharing the back seat, etc.

I'm sure that others are correct that the economics just didn't make sense to continue to make them for such a small market, but those of us in that small market miss them terribly!


I'm with you my prior combo was a 7.3 Excursion and 36' 10K loaded TT.
It was a great combo. While I enjoy my current 5'er I still miss the passenger space f the X. Family of 4 and a Doberman barely fit in a crew cab pick. We had room to spare in the X.


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Grit dog

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Posted: 03/01/21 06:20pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer.

And all BS aside about vans, yes they are the most economical way to haul a large family and do have the capability to pull a modest trailer while hauling said large family. What they do acceptably or excel at in those categories, they still give up what most people "want" or think they "need" in a vehicle.
-Luxury? Not there. (Idk, maybe you could special order power leather seats and a good sound system, etc, but 99% of the vans for sale are basic transportation rigs)
- All weather capability? Nope, not for the "average" 21st century soccer mom or dad. Sure I just drove a rwd BMW 600mi through a blizzard and didn't think twice about it, but most people even in AWD and 4x4s were poking along like they were in a..... blizzard. It's 2021, not 1981.
- Power? best one can do is the new 6.6 gasser with a 6 speed. Not great even by HD gasser standards.
- Visibility, ergonomics, safety features? Alot of people are now very used to the ergos and technology that comes with vehicles built in the last 10 years or less. Full size vans are a throwback to the turn of the century, minus some mandatory safety updates.
-And the most subjective yet equally or more important to alot of consumers, the image.


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Dadoffourgirls

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Posted: 03/02/21 04:06am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

GM has been making 1 ton Suburbans for several years. However, the tow rating was 4k, but there was over 4k in payload. The are sold fleet, and what was hauling all those key individuals in DC in January.


And how many of those suburbans can you go buy today at the chevy dealer? I'm pretty sure the OP's post/query wasn't about something that is unobtanium, just for the sake of someone saying, "told you so."


Grit - I know you are always correct. This was to highlight that GM had the engineering complete on a 1 ton Burb. If it was cost effective, helped the contribution margin, and was worthy of building for the retail public, they would. The sticker price was in the $80k+. At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.


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Lantley

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Posted: 03/02/21 05:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

GM has been making 1 ton Suburbans for several years. However, the tow rating was 4k, but there was over 4k in payload. The are sold fleet, and what was hauling all those key individuals in DC in January.


And how many of those suburbans can you go buy today at the chevy dealer? I'm pretty sure the OP's post/query wasn't about something that is unobtanium, just for the sake of someone saying, "told you so."


Grit - I know you are always correct. This was to highlight that GM had the engineering complete on a 1 ton Burb. If it was cost effective, helped the contribution margin, and was worthy of building for the retail public, they would. The sticker price was in the $80k+. At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.

If the same job involves 4 wheel drive your economical van is not up to the task. While a 3/4 ton van and a 3/4 SUV have lots of overlap in their abilities. The need for 4x4 separates the 2 vehicles.
In the end I do agree there is only a small niche market for 3/4 ton SUV's that makes it hard to build them and make a profit.

deltabravo

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Posted: 03/02/21 07:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wiskeyVI wrote:

Suburbans used to come in a 3/4T version...


Ditto. Probably the Yukon XL as well


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Grit dog

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Posted: 03/02/21 09:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

At the end of the day, my $22k off rental Express 2wd can tow the same 9500lb travel trailer.

And do I miss my 2500 Yukon XL with the 8.1? Absolutely not. The Express does the same job, and almost 40% more efficient.


Directly above your post, I acknowledged that a van IS the most economical way to move a large number of people and tow a good size trailer.

And to your point about GM still making HD subs, I believe you could be right and I'm all wet, maybe. I still think the demand is there and read something in the past about CAFE standards and how SUVs are classified with the passenger vehicles (cars) and take away from the aggregate fuel mileage averages in that class. So with that, the attractiveness to sell large fuel guzzler SUVs and get penalized when "many" of those customers would go buy a new crew cab HD truck instead and the mfgs wouldn't have a larger challenge with mileage standards.
ICBW, but I don't think big SUVs went the way of the dinosaur because of lack of demand.

Dadoffourgirls

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Posted: 03/02/21 11:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer. ...


It took about three years to saturate the market starting in 2001. Their sales continued to dwindle as a percentage of all full size SUVs for GM in 2007 (and it might have been the bumper tongue weight). I think you underestimate the cost of engineering, producing, and certifying a low-volume, short-lived demand vehicle.

Additionally, GM is constrained currently with plant capacity.

APT

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Posted: 03/02/21 12:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Bottom line, HD SUVs would sell like hot-cakes for a while at least until the market is saturated with them, the economy goes in the tank (along with all new vehicle sales) or we're all gassing up with a SO cord plugged into a transformer.

And all BS aside about vans, yes they are the most economical way to haul a large family and do have the capability to pull a modest trailer while hauling said large family. What they do acceptably or excel at in those categories, they still give up what most people "want" or think they "need" in a vehicle.
-Luxury? Not there. (Idk, maybe you could special order power leather seats and a good sound system, etc, but 99% of the vans for sale are basic transportation rigs)
- All weather capability? Nope, not for the "average" 21st century soccer mom or dad. Sure I just drove a rwd BMW 600mi through a blizzard and didn't think twice about it, but most people even in AWD and 4x4s were poking along like they were in a..... blizzard. It's 2021, not 1981.
- Power? best one can do is the new 6.6 gasser with a 6 speed. Not great even by HD gasser standards.
- Visibility, ergonomics, safety features? Alot of people are now very used to the ergos and technology that comes with vehicles built in the last 10 years or less. Full size vans are a throwback to the turn of the century, minus some mandatory safety updates.
-And the most subjective yet equally or more important to alot of consumers, the image.


100% Agreed. It would be a challenge to convince my wife to drive a full sized passenger van compared to any modern (<20yr old) SUV.


A & A parents of DD 2005, DS1 2007, DS2 2009
2011 Suburban 2500 6.0L 3.73 pulling 2011 Heartland North Trail 28BRS
2017 Subaru Outback 3.6R

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