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 > Glacier National Park starting ticketed Entry

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JIMNLIN

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Posted: 04/04/21 06:13am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

I am not sure the 'state of CO' has done anything to Royal Gorge Bridge - it is a privately owned tourist trap.

Exactly....its what the state didn't do in protecting a attraction like the Royal Gorge. Like I stated I'm glad to have seen it before.


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C Schomer

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Posted: 04/04/21 10:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We used to go across the Royal Gorge bridge, go to RedRocks Park, go over Trail Ridge and anywhere else at anytime. Starting June 4, it will cost $25/day or $35/ week for RMNP but the senior pass still works so why is the extra charge necessary? I think it's our Q governor at work. He jacked up hunting fees as soon as he was in office. Craig

valhalla360

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Posted: 04/05/21 05:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

Besides the obvious xenophobia, I am not sure how this would even address the issue. Over the last year there have been near zero foreign visitors, yet the crowds have been worse than ever.


bgum wrote:

I am sure that this will get a warm reception: It has been suggested that usa citizens or at least usa residents have unrestricted entry but noncitizens have ticketed entry.


Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.


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FWC

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Posted: 04/05/21 06:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:


Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.


Will we have to show our papers to enter the parks?

Even before the pandemic, foreign visitors made up 9% of the visitation to Glacier, and only 6% of visitation to Zion, so restricting foreign visitation will not solve the issue.

I believe that sharing the worlds cultural and natural treasures brings people together. It would be really sad if Egypt decided to no longer let foreigners into Giza, France no longer let foreigners visit the Louvre and Australia no longer let foreigners visit the Great Barrier Reef.

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Posted: 04/05/21 07:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For context, those that enjoy the backcountry of the National Parks have dealt with limited numbers, permits and lotteries for a long time. Yes it can be disappointing when you can't get the backpacking, rafting, climbing or canyoneering trip on the day you wanted (or at all). But most agree that for the wilderness to remain wild, you need to manage the visitation and impact and can't have a free-for-all.

I personally would prefer to have a less frequent but experience-of-a-lifetime type experience in the wilderness than to be able to go whenever I want and have to play bumper boats on the Grand or race people for campsites on the Teton Crest Trail. Obviously visitation will be higher and the experience is less wild in the front country, but it still comes to the point where the crowding detracts from the experience for everyone.

One thing I do hope is that if/when they do go to reserved/permitted entry, that the commercial operators don't get to jump the queue. This is a huge issue with backcountry use, where a certain percentage of permitts are reserved for a small number of commercial operators, meaning they are not available to the general public.

valhalla360

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Posted: 04/05/21 09:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:


Other than this past year, which is an anomaly, many of the parks are heavily traveled by foreigners. Particularly they busiest parks.

Nothing xenophobic about it. As the owners, citizens should have first access if we need to reduce numbers as you suggest.


Will we have to show our papers to enter the parks?

Even before the pandemic, foreign visitors made up 9% of the visitation to Glacier, and only 6% of visitation to Zion, so restricting foreign visitation will not solve the issue.

I believe that sharing the worlds cultural and natural treasures brings people together. It would be really sad if Egypt decided to no longer let foreigners into Giza, France no longer let foreigners visit the Louvre and Australia no longer let foreigners visit the Great Barrier Reef.


You already have to show your card at most NP to gain entry...particularly the busy ones. This past winter, we've had them check that it's signed and that it matches our ID. So yes, you have to show your papers.

Removing a 10th of the visitors at Glacier would likely have a big impact particularly since they are likely concentrated on the top attractions in the park, so it would have a disproportionate impact.

At Grand Canyon it's around 35% of visitors. 20% at Yosemite. There is room to scale back without eliminating entirely. Or do we push them to come in the off season. We hit 10 national parks over the past 6 months and other than Zion, there was no crowds.

No one is suggesting we don't allow them to visit but first priority would be for citizens. There's a difference between managing and outlawing.

PS: In many of the top European tourist cities, there is a problem. The tourists have displaced the locals. Go to Venice and its' a rarity to meet an actual Venetian. There are groups pushing to limit them. Without the locals, it may as well be a fake disney theme park. When we were in Egypt 2 years ago, the locals outnumbered foreign tourists 10 to 1 at Giza and the locals had ticket prices about 1/10th the price that we paid for entrance tickets. Your examples are on weak ground if we are to use foreign destinations as a comparison.

valhalla360

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Posted: 04/05/21 09:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

For context, those that enjoy the backcountry of the National Parks have dealt with limited numbers, permits and lotteries for a long time. Yes it can be disappointing when you can't get the backpacking, rafting, climbing or canyoneering trip on the day you wanted (or at all). But most agree that for the wilderness to remain wild, you need to manage the visitation and impact and can't have a free-for-all.

I personally would prefer to have a less frequent but experience-of-a-lifetime type experience in the wilderness than to be able to go whenever I want and have to play bumper boats on the Grand or race people for campsites on the Teton Crest Trail. Obviously visitation will be higher and the experience is less wild in the front country, but it still comes to the point where the crowding detracts from the experience for everyone.

One thing I do hope is that if/when they do go to reserved/permitted entry, that the commercial operators don't get to jump the queue. This is a huge issue with backcountry use, where a certain percentage of permitts are reserved for a small number of commercial operators, meaning they are not available to the general public.


The issue here is not should we manage the park use but the end around methods of blame it on covid as a false justification, when there may be better solutions.

lbrjet

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Posted: 04/05/21 06:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The major parks have been crowded for years. Mornings not so much. Plan your must do/see activities in the mornings and you won't be disappointed.

I totally disagree with limiting folks from other countries.


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Posted: 04/08/21 10:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

naturist wrote:

In contrast to our visit to Glacier NP ten years ago, which I posted about above, was our visit to Denali NP in Alaska in June of 2019. For those who have never been there, you can't just drive in and wander around. Although the park is vast, one of the larger ones in the world, you can only drive into the edge of the park. From there, getting into the interior of the park requires a shuttle bus ride. The longest bus trip into the park, that takes you as close to the mountain itself, is an approximately 10 hour round trip.


Things will change this summer. You'll be able to drive your vehicle all the way to Teklanika campground. You must reserve online at a $25 cost and only 25 permits/day.

https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

As to the comment that we should be able to go where we want and when in our national parks.... no, not possible with the crowds of today. Our parks are being loved to death. They need to regulate somehow to keep the crowds manageable. I predict we'll see more permits needed.

C Schomer

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Posted: 04/11/21 12:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Does the Senior Pass still work to drive through the NPs? Is the extra $25/$35 pass only if you don't have a Senior Pass? Craig

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