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Open Roads Forum  >  Technology Corner

 > Opinion on knock-off batteries for laptop...?

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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 10/27/21 02:31pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gjac wrote:

I have been retired since 2004. I am now on my 2nd lap top, I always bought the 3 party batteries and they outlasted the OEM battery and the laptop itself. When my current laptop battery started to fail after about 10 years I was ready to buy another one but I removed the battery for awhile then followed some HP prompts to prolong battery life. That was about 3 months ago and battery has lost capacity but is still working. You don't always get what you pay for. I don't know if this is just coincidental but I had an old Oral B with a Li battery that would no longer charge and the company was nice enough to send me a new one. When the new one died also I put the 20 year old one back on the charger about 5 years ago and it still works today. So when one gets weak I just alternate between the two. They won't fully charge when low they have to be completely discharged to come back to full strength. Anyone know why this is?


Lithium batteries require a BMS (Battery Monitoring System) to manage the charge/discharge of the cell. The BMS is typically a very small chip embbeded inside the cell that you can't access.

BMS will "disconnect" the cell from the terminals if the charging voltage or current is too high or the device is drawing too much current or the cell voltage drops below safe low limits.

Letting a cell sit for some time may allow the cell voltage to float high enough to allow BMS to connect for charging.

Just be aware that if that old cell starts to bulge, remove it from the device and charger and for good measure since you can't often determine the exact type of Lithium battery you might wish to set outside on concrete until you find a safe place to dispose of it. Lithium battery fires are no joke.

Gjac

Milford, CT

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Posted: 10/27/21 02:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for the explanation I did not realize these small batteries had a BMS system.

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 10/27/21 04:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gjac wrote:

Thanks for the explanation I did not realize these small batteries had a BMS system.


Many sold as replaceable batteries with a plastic case will have BMS built in somewhere under that case.

Many in single cell (3.7V) format that are designed as replaceable will also have a BMS hidden inside.

Now, bare single cells (3.7V)(no plastic case) designed to be put into a larger higher voltage/amperage pack typically will typically not have a BMS built in and depends on an external BMS for proper charge/discharge handling.

PastorCharlie

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Posted: 10/28/21 12:32pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The question is does Dell Computer manufacture their own batteries. A research will reveal that there are a limited number of batteries manufacturers and they manufacture for many other companies with their labels added.

Out of HS I worked for a cake company that made cakes for twelve different bakeries and the only difference was the packaging and labels. Wife worked for a clothing manufacturer that made pants for several companies and the only difference was the stitching and the pocket labeling.

One manufacturer makes refrigerators for several different companies, only difference is the labeling.

One manufacturer makes lawn mowers for several different companies, only difference is the labeling.

Retail groceries offer their own brand of food products that are produced by other producers and only the labeling is different.

My brother-in-law put a water filter on his kitchen faucet and he, his wife and son talked all evening how it had improved the taste of the water. That night he got up to go the restroom and though to get another drink of water and noticed that the filter was dripping where it screwed onto the faucet. He decided to fix it while up. He had a difficult time stopping the leak and took it off. While it was off he took it apart and noticed that it did not have a filter in it.

Often one car manufacturer's part will fit a half dozen other brand of vehicles.

I often buy off brand batteries, sometimes a couple hundred at a time, for their bargain pricing.

People are often fool by what "They Want To Believe."

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 10/28/21 01:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PastorCharlie wrote:

The question is does Dell Computer manufacture their own batteries. A research will reveal that there are a limited number of batteries manufacturers and they manufacture for many other companies with their labels added...


...I often buy off brand batteries, sometimes a couple hundred at a time, for their bargain pricing.

People are often fool by what "They Want To Believe."


Answer is no, Dell does not "manufacture" their batteries.

But neither does other PC and electronic device manufacturers.

However, what Dell and other PC and electronic (or any manufacturer) manufacturers will do is something called "qualify" their parts and material suppliers.

This is done via a "QA" or Quality Assurance department.

Qualifying parts is an essential function of any business that wishes to manufacture and sell a quality product.

Manufacturers like Dell will have their design and engineering departments work up a "BOM" (Bill Of Materials) based on design parameters set by the marketing department.

Purchasing Department will now contact potential sources with the BOM specifications. Sample parts are then submitted and QA department will inspect materials to ensure they meet the require specs.

Once suppliers have been selected the parts are qualified are now approved or rejected via QA department during manufacturing life of that product.

Dell and many other manufacturers tend to track the parts used to build your device, some may be in "lots" some may be individual serial numbers. This can be very useful in the event that a hidden defect slides through the QA department and you can be contacted to have the defect corrected.

Dell is pretty topnotch for tracking their Service Numbers as they call it (Serial Numbers) and was able to react quickly to alert folks back a few years ago when it was discovered one of their battery suppliers provided them with batteries which had the potential for an internal short due to contamination..

That also was not just a "Dell" issue, it affected all laptop manufacturers and even other devices which may have used that faulty battery lot(s).

Generic aftermarket parts do not have much if any QA department let alone any means to track where the parts they made and sold went. This also means generic aftermarket manufacturers can and might use cast off or rejected, cutting room floor materials ("2nds"). So you takes your chances, toss the dice and hope you rolled a winner.

Generally, your "best" quality is OEM, but it often is more expensive and over time the OEM may discontinue replacement parts at EOL (End Of Life) and only available via third party suppliers.

Spent my last 22 yrs in a High Tech computerized electro-mechanical manufacturing company.. Was involved in cradle to grave with a lot of robotic devices my company built which had the potential to save a persons life or if it failed could kill a person(s)..

PastorCharlie

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Posted: 11/04/21 09:48am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Therefore there is nothing to stop a battery manufacturing company from manufacturing their own brand of batteries at a higher service level than they do for dell and/or others.

They are free also to manufacture batteries at a higher service level for companies other than dell.

Dell batteries are manufactured to dell's standards to fit their budget and their own products .

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 11/04/21 01:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

PastorCharlie wrote:

Therefore there is nothing to stop a battery manufacturing company from manufacturing their own brand of batteries at a higher service level than they do for dell and/or others.

They are free also to manufacture batteries at a higher service level for companies other than dell.

Dell batteries are manufactured to dell's standards to fit their budget and their own products .


Granted, they are free to make "better" batteries than OEM IF they wish to do so.

However, they are also "free" to use the batteries they made which turned out subpar and were not "good enough" to meet the OEM design specs.

Nothing manufactured ever comes out 100% perfect, so there is a design tolerance which is an allowable or acceptable range.

Ever wonder what happens to items that ended up on the lower spectrum just below acceptable specifications?

Not all of the items are always scrapped that do no meet specs, instead they often end up being sold at a low cost on the "grey market" in order to recoup some of the costs to make the product. It costs money to make and costs money to scrap, lost material, lost wages, companies do often try to recoup the money.

Will it last or be better? Perhaps yes, perhaps no, that is the gamble you take.

There is a reason why a lot of the aftermarket batteries are cheaper than the OEM..

No right or wrong answers to this, just a bunch of maybes..

In some cases, you might not have a choice and aftermarket is the only viable solution.

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