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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > GM Spokesperson admits energy to charge cars comes from coal

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free radical

Canada

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Posted: 04/27/21 09:20pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

BCSnob wrote:

Another false argument posed was the cost associated with shipping the EV batteries. What is the difference in costs associated with shipping a EV drivetrain (battery and motors) vs an ICE drivetrain (motor and transmission)?

Don’t forget about the water consumed to produce the ethanol in a gal of gasoline; corn based ethanol production is a water intensive process.

The arguments against something new is almost always about what’s wrong with the new and not about what the net change will be with the new replacing the current.

Ethanol doesn't belong in the argument. The greenies forced that debacle on us, and once the farmers found out how profitable it is for them... It is now impossible to get rid of it, even though it never made any sense.

You dont make any sense,
If its profitable why is it bad?

Fwiw Hemp for example can be grown very quickly and at low cost and made into biodiesel and old Henry Ford actualy did just that,
Until oil corporations forced Goverment to make hemp ilegal,and here we are.

Hemp can be made into degradable plastic products and fabric,ropes and even car body stronger then steel and lighter too,and no you cant get high smoking hemp.

Hemp car
https://youtu.be/srgE6Tzi3Lg

Hemp products
https://youtu.be/WsE712GwT9U

LowRyter

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Posted: 04/27/21 10:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

well Rad, smokum' if you gottem'


John L
WW SL 2805 5th Wheel
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Ducati 939 SS, Moto Guzzi V11 Sport, Moto Guzzi EV California and Suzuki 1200 Bandit

BCSnob

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Posted: 04/28/21 04:23am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Geothermal waters are not typically tapped for fresh drinking water; the news reports about the South American mine is the aquifer that supplies the drinking water is being used to inject the water into the mine to extract the lithium. Also, more salts are dissolved in hot water then in room temperature water; the geothermal brine is more concentrated than the brine from injected water.

* This post was edited 04/28/21 04:51am by BCSnob *

pianotuna

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Posted: 04/28/21 07:01am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Huntindog wrote:

Ethanol doesn't belong in the argument. The greenies forced that debacle on us, and once the farmers found out how profitable it is for them... It is now impossible to get rid of it, even though it never made any sense.


So there is no ethanol in regular gasoline?


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Timmo!

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Posted: 04/28/21 09:02am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

One can argue how bad gasoline production is and the amount of water consumed, but that does not change the fact that EV's requires excessive water (3,000 to 32,000 gallons) to extinguish EV fires (which is equal to the water carried by 6-64 firetrucks). That is a fact.

What are the ecological impacts of mining Lithium? Can the land ever be reused?
Under what conditions would California permit the mining of Lithium (assuming a deposit of Lithium was discovered). LOL, Cali would never permit open mining with excessive water usage.

And what form of "non hydrocarbon" energy will fire-up these, yet to be built, smelters required to recycle EV batteries? How many will be located in California?

How is OK to trash one partion of mother earth (Chile) for the benefit of a small group of affluent consumers that mostly reside in California--all under the premise that "we drive EV, you drive IC, so therefor we are greener than you".

Just asking difficult questions...and if you don't know the answers, then who does? And if they don't know...then, ahhhh the great con game.


Let's Go Brandon!!!!
Tim & Sue
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2005 F150 4x4 Lariat 5.4L 3.73 Please buy a Hybrid...I need your gas for my 35.7 gallon tank!
2000 Nash 19B...comfortably pimped with a real Queen Size Bed


Timmo!

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Posted: 04/28/21 09:34am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

An interesting read--
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/02/09/l........d-the-hidden-environmental-costs-of-evs/

That led me to this, let's look at Nevada

https://www.protectthackerpass.org/info-2/

Thacker Pass Mine Fact Sheet
The future demand for lithium is truly staggering…. Battery demand is rising at the rate
of one to two new lithium mines per year, growing to two to three mines per year by
2020.” — Mike Kobler, CEO, American Lithium
THE MINE
• Lithium Americas Corp. is a Canadian company. They plan to mine nearly 6,000 acres in
Thacker Pass, Nevada, creating an open pit roughly one half mile across and 2.3 miles
long, with associated tailings piles and processing facilities.
• Future mine expansions could triple the mine size to over 17,000 acres.
• The Thacker Pass mine would burn around 11,300 gallons of diesel fuel per day for onsite
operations, and nearly as much again for off-site operations.
• Carbon emissions from the site would more than 150,000 tons per year (during Phase
2), roughly 2.3 tons of carbon for every ton of lithium that will be produced.
• Lithium is present in the soils here at 2000-9000 ppm (0.2-0.9%). Producing one ton of
lithium will require strip mining and processing between 110 and 500 tons of Earth.
• The Thacker Pass mine would cut off access to thousands of acres of public lands,
including areas regularly used for hunting and recreation.
• The mine would last at least 41 years, possibly longer. Even if reclamation were
completely successful (unlikely), restoration of the site to its current condition —
dominated by old-growth sagebrush — would not be complete until at least 2162.
PROCESSING
• Lithium Americas Corp. plans to build a sulfuric acid plant on site to convert molten
sulfur into sulfuric acid to leach the lithium from clay and stone.
• Hundreds of tons of sulfur (ironically, waste from oil refineries) will be trucked in and
burned every day at the mine site. This is roughly 75 semi loads of sulfur a day. Locals
are concerned about the possibility of accidents and spills.
• Thousands of tons of sulfuric acid will be produced every day. Other harsh chemicals will
be used in bulk as well. Following the leaching, the lithium bearing solution would be
purified using crystallizers and reagents to produce battery grade Li2CO3.
WATER
• Local residents are concerned about water use. Lithium Americas plans to extract more
than 5000 acre-feet (1.7 billion gallons) of water annually from an aquifer in the Quinn
River Valley which is already over-allocated by more than 30,000 acre-feet per year.
• It’s possible the mine will leach uranium, antimony, sulfuric acid, and other dangerous
substances into groundwater.
• The mine could cause local springs to dry up and impact a critically endangered spring
snail which only lives in the Thacker Pass area.
• Declines in groundwater levels could cause meadows to become dustbowls and streams
home to threatened Lahontan cutthroat trout to become increasingly inhospitable to
fish.
WILDLIFE
• Thacker Pass is a critical corridor for wildlife such as pronghorn antelope and mule deer
travelling between the Montana and Double H Mountains.
• The Nevada Department of Wildlife has described the proposed mine as having
“adverse impacts to wildlife, ground and surface waters, and riparian vegetation within
and outside the project area. These impacts include effects to an array of species and
will likely have permanent ramifications on the area’s wildlife and habitat resources.”
• This region is the most important greater sage-grouse habitat (the Lone Willow PMU) in
Nevada, home to 5-8% of the total global population of sage-grouse.
• Contrary to mining company claims, grouse regularly use and visit the site of the
proposed open-pit mine.
• The mine is in the watershed of several creeks that host threatened Lahontan cutthroat
trout, and nearby springs that are the only home of the King’s River pyrg (an endemic
springsnail species).
• Crosby’s Buckwheat, a rare desert wildflower, lives in the project area.
• Golden eagles, ferruginous hawks, prairie falcons, and numerous other bird species nest
in the cliffs above the site and regularly hunt among the old-growth sagebrush.
• Much of the Thacker Pass mine site is covered in old-growth big-sagebrush, with
individuals over 100 years in age. This type of habitat is increasingly rare across Nevada.
CULTURAL AND INDIGENOUS ISSUES
• Lithium Americas is 49% owner of a South American mining company called Minera Exar
which has been accused of misleading and violating principles of free, prior, and
informed consent of indigenous communities in the vicinity of their mine in Argentina.
• Local communities are concerned that this mine will similarly disregard human rights
and environmental issues.
• The Thacker Pass mine would be built in an area known to have been used by Northern
Paiute and Western Shoshone people for many generations.
• There are cultural sites, including obsidian processing areas and potentially burial sites,
in the area directly surrounding the proposed mine.
• Impacts to golden eagles are particularly concerning to many tribal members.
This is not a green project. It is greenwashing and the destruction of a wild, beautiful, and
important place. Learn more at https://ProtectThackerPass.org.

Lynnmor

Red Lion

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Posted: 04/28/21 09:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

free radical wrote:


If its profitable why is it bad?



Because using tax money to compel the citizens to purchase a product that is unnecessary, harmful and wasteful only for the purpose of buying votes, is a bad thing.





BCSnob

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Posted: 04/28/21 10:05am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

How much water does it take to put out a vehicle fire where the vehicle is built with aluminum (remember the F150s burned to the ground) and magnesium?

time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 04/28/21 10:43am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

How much water does it take to control the lithium burn after the FD has proper experience and training? How many gallons are dumped on a house fire and still it ends up as just cinders? What is realistic here? Nobody cared until it was Tesla burning. The media driven hype continues....

And of course Tesla EVs currently burn at 1/10th the rate per mile driven compared to ICE.


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pianotuna

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Posted: 04/28/21 12:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lynnmor wrote:

free radical wrote:


If its profitable why is it bad?



Because using tax money to compel the citizens to purchase a product that is unnecessary, harmful and wasteful only for the purpose of buying votes, is a bad thing.


No one is forcing anyone to buy anything. It is clear that by year 5 a Bev is better for the world than an ice.

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