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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > One Great Big EV Thread

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Timmo!

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Posted: 05/10/21 12:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

Every car we have owned has been kept beyond 200,000miles. Our current low mileage car in my 1966 mustang at 107,000

As someone who has done the analysis in the emissions due to manufacturing, I ask you why you’re not keeping vehicles longer to minimize you impacts on Mother Earth?


Ahhh, man cut from the same thread as I.

My wife's 2000 MBZ is still under 100k and my 2005 F150 is under 70k. But we buy new an hold until the cost of operating goes off the chart. I plan to keep the F150 for another decade or so, nothing wrong with it.

The Benz works great, problem is the car with a first and last name does not like snow. And where we live, snow is part of the 4 seasons. That is the only reason why I know a bit about this topic.


Let's Go Brandon!!!!
Tim & Sue
Hershey (Sheltie)
2005 F150 4x4 Lariat 5.4L 3.73 Please buy a Hybrid...I need your gas for my 35.7 gallon tank!
2000 Nash 19B...comfortably pimped with a real Queen Size Bed


atreis

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Posted: 05/10/21 06:25pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For environmental impact, how long an individual owns a car is irrelevant. That's mainly relevant to their personal finances. For environmental impact, it's the car's service life that's relevant. The original purchaser may not reach breakeven with the car, but it can still have a positive environmental impact over it's total useful lifetime.


2021 Four Winds 26B on Chevy 4500


BCSnob

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Posted: 05/10/21 08:04pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So sales of new cars doesn’t lead to manufacturing of more new cars (new cars are only manufactured when another vehicle has been scrapped)?

* This post was last edited 05/10/21 08:26pm by BCSnob *   View edit history

Yosemite Sam1

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Posted: 05/11/21 09:53am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

atreis wrote:

For environmental impact, how long an individual owns a car is irrelevant. That's mainly relevant to their personal finances. For environmental impact, it's the car's service life that's relevant. The original purchaser may not reach breakeven with the car, but it can still have a positive environmental impact over it's total useful lifetime.


Agree! And that's where EV separates itself from ICE, cost of operations and environmental impact -- plus the convenience of not having a regular 5,000 mile check ups and re-charging at home.

Timmo!

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Posted: 05/11/21 09:54am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Perhaps if we look at the breakeven of a BEV a bit differently.

Suppose you need a machine that, like most things (ie copiers and printers) there is the cost to purchase and the cost of consumable supplies. So let's look at this from that perspective; you have received quotes for two machines with different purchase costs and different supply costs. Which machine do you buy? The more expensive one with lower supply cost....or the more affordably priced machine with expensive supply cost?

Let's pretend in the following analysis that: each ton of CO2 is equivalent to $1,000 and each year is the equivalent of operating the XC40 10,000 miles.

Which machine do you buy? And be honest with yourself.

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pianotuna

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Posted: 05/11/21 10:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

You can cherry pick to make any format look good.

I have an 8 year old Elantra that has a new short block (recall) with 3000 miles and total mileage of 48,000. It was a demo, and I loaned it out so most of those miles are not mine. I drive it about 1500 miles per year. The body and interior are in good shape.

Should I replace it with a BEV? Of course not. The tires will age out in 2024 spring, so it might be a consideration to buy a lightly used BEV at that time.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

BCSnob

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Posted: 05/11/21 10:12am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Which machine do you buy? And be honest with yourself.

Since we keep our vehicles for more than 90,000miles; which do you think is the better choice?

Since my commuter vehicle gets at least 20,000miles/year which do you think is the better choice?

Since......
Quote:

The U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration states the average person drives around 13,500 miles every year. This is the highest average miles per year in American history. It equates to well over 1000 miles every month.

The average driver would reach the break even point sooner than in your table.

Since....
Quote:

The automotive research firm, iSeeCars.com, analyzed more than 5 million vehicles sold by their original owners to identify which cars are kept the longest. The average length of car ownership for the top 10 models ranges from 9.7 to 11.4 years – or 14.9 percent to 35 percent longer than the overall average of 8.4 years.


And with an average of 13,500 miles/year the top 10 models are kept longer than the worst case break even mileage in your table.

* This post was last edited 05/11/21 10:35am by BCSnob *   View edit history

Reisender

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Posted: 05/11/21 10:31am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And of course many people buy a new vehicle every 4 or 5 years just because they want one. We switch out every 4 or 5 years just because we like new tech, features, better performance etc. And our earlier EV’s are still driving around our town everyday. The people that bought them are super stoked they got well looked after EV’s at a reduced price.

As far as price parity, like everything else...it depends. For an equivalent featured BMW to our model 3 Tesla I would actually have to pay more...and the only way the Tesla would be as slow as the BMW is if it was towing one on the end of a rope.

My point is many don’t buy cars with longevity and durability in mind, because they know they’ll be in something new in 3 to 5 years.

Timmo!

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Posted: 05/11/21 11:08am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Agree Reis....everyone is different and usually the motivator of pocketbook spending is driven by personal preferences. If the sales pitch was a bit more truthful, then it might help in the decision making process.

If the sales pitch was: "Hey man, I will sell you this car at $20k premium and within a dozen years you will be greener than ICE version. Cool, right?"

People buy for different reasons, and if the goal is to reduce one's carbon footprint, then one should include a target date. I can only control what I do, I can not control what others do, and particularly what the fools in China do...

Such as they believe "the right right to emit...is a basic human right"

Ding Zhongli, a vice chairman of the Standing Committee of China's National People's Congress and former vice president of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, who said years ago that "I want to ask: Are Chinese humans? That's a fundamental question," noting that "I see the right to emit as a right to development, which is a basic human right." Ding added that there should be a roughly equal amount of emissions per capita, which is fair.

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202105/1222988.shtml

So the largest polluter in the world (China) argues they are also the cleanest, when emissions are calculated on a per person basis.

LOL, you really can't make this stuff up.

BCSnob

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Posted: 05/11/21 11:45am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

China has the largest total emissions because of their total population. Per capita the US emits >2x that of China. Likely because of the level of consumerism per person in the US relative to that in China.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/270508/co2-emissions-per-capita-by-country/

Let’s hope the world population doesn’t decide to emit as much as the dirtiest people: Qatar (>2x per capita of the US).

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