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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > Looks like electric trucks and RVs may be delayed...

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tommyznr

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Posted: 06/23/21 02:57pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The poster you responded to called out several, granted all EV companies, you defended Tesla. I was curious on your claim and discovered the rest of the story.

Why liquidate GM? Subsidies and loans seemed to have worked well for most involved here minus the investors that got screwed. The article says GM has not paid back their loans but I seem to recall that they did many years ago. Of course, that could mean they paid off particular loans but not others.

Subsidies, tax incentives etc. have worked for many including GM and Tesla. I don't think they are a bad thing when used properly.


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time2roll

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Posted: 06/23/21 03:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

On the federal ones, maybe.
But at a state level, he has been a huge beneficiary, and many others have as well, but his propensity to also make loud and bragadoscious claims has gotten a lot of airtime , especially in Ca. where he has based most of his operations, And Ca has handsomely rewarded him with over a Billion in subsidies, and he has now rewarded them, Tesla
Musk was a major donor and fundraiser , and Ca and the Fed kept their side of the bargain with free money for Musk.
And No, every other company does not get the same treatment, you have to line a lot of pockets to get there.
Again the subsidies are available to all companies. This is not a handout just to Tesla. Mostly just sales tax exemptions on purchasing equipment. GM, Ford, Toyota would get the same. You can get the same for your company if buying qualified equipment. Read the bit you posted and the related sources... not just the headline. Then search the programs to verify.


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wanderingaimlessly

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Posted: 06/23/21 03:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

On the federal ones, maybe.
But at a state level, he has been a huge beneficiary, and many others have as well, but his propensity to also make loud and bragadoscious claims has gotten a lot of airtime , especially in Ca. where he has based most of his operations, And Ca has handsomely rewarded him with over a Billion in subsidies, and he has now rewarded them, Tesla
Musk was a major donor and fundraiser , and Ca and the Fed kept their side of the bargain with free money for Musk.
And No, every other company does not get the same treatment, you have to line a lot of pockets to get there.
Again the subsidies are available to all companies. This is not a handout just to Tesla. Mostly just sales tax exemptions on purchasing equipment. GM, Ford, Toyota would get the same. You can get the same for your company if buying qualified equipment. Read the bit you posted and the related sources... not just the headline. Then search the programs to verify.


I did read it and some others, for example, Under his deal for Porkulus money back in 2009, Musk had to give the Feds an option to purchase stock, at a discounted price, he went to great lengths to avoid that because of wanting/needing to refuse unionization of his plants, the same was not being viewed with Ford and GM because the Unions were already in.
And no, just any company can not get those deals, payola in the form of campaign contributions are just part of the game.
Pay to Play.
Musk is a businessman, he does little to nothing without there being a benefit to him.

wintersun

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Posted: 06/23/21 06:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Electric Class 4 trucks are where viable solutions exist as an EV is much less expensive to operate than a truck with an internal combustion engine. For RV's there are no real advantages and they are not going to be usable for dry camping.
Ford is going to be releasing an electric F-150 pickup truck but their target market is tradespeople who will have the truck at the shop each night recharging and where the truck becomes a portable generator for their power tools.

dedmiston

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Posted: 06/23/21 06:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Moved from General RVing.

This stopped being about RVs a few pages ago.


Bobbo

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Posted: 06/23/21 09:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

magicbus wrote:

Bobbo wrote:


You obviously haven't heard that California has banned fossil fuel vehicles by the year 2035. If that is not "forcing" I don't know what is.
Just to be clear, the order covers the sale of new non-zero emission vehicles in 2035, not all non-zero emission vehicles.

Dave

Your semantic quibbling doesn't change the fact that it is a BAN. (Which is the whole point.)


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Posted: 06/24/21 04:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IMO we're all paying for the field testing of EVs. It seems like we're adding more problems, and fewer solutions. No wonder my grand daughter wants to graduate from Harvard.


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Posted: 06/24/21 04:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bobbo wrote:

free radical wrote:

No one is forcing anyone to drive ev.however some cities will ban ice cars eventualy due to air polution.

You obviously haven't heard that California has banned fossil fuel vehicles by the year 2035. If that is not "forcing" I don't know what is.


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tommyznr

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Posted: 06/24/21 06:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

On the federal ones, maybe.
But at a state level, he has been a huge beneficiary, and many others have as well, but his propensity to also make loud and bragadoscious claims has gotten a lot of airtime , especially in Ca. where he has based most of his operations, And Ca has handsomely rewarded him with over a Billion in subsidies, and he has now rewarded them, Tesla
Musk was a major donor and fundraiser , and Ca and the Fed kept their side of the bargain with free money for Musk.
And No, every other company does not get the same treatment, you have to line a lot of pockets to get there.
Again the subsidies are available to all companies. This is not a handout just to Tesla. Mostly just sales tax exemptions on purchasing equipment. GM, Ford, Toyota would get the same. You can get the same for your company if buying qualified equipment. Read the bit you posted and the related sources... not just the headline. Then search the programs to verify.


You reviewed all 200+ programs, grants, etc. and determined they are mostly tax credits for purchased equipment? I don't think that is accurate at all.

While, yes, many of these subsidies can go to any company there are also those that are Tesla specific and those that are worded as general but realistically only apply to Tesla. But to your point many companies have subsidies like this.

I don't get why you are so adamantly defending Tesla. I have been following Tesla since the beginning and find it a fascinating company. I have wished I could afford one of these vehicles since the first one was introduced. But let's not pretend that Tesla has been playing on a level playing field. Elon Musk has tipped the scales to his favor craftfully and I don't think that is much of a secret.

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Posted: 06/24/21 06:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Folks, if this thread is to continue, it is time to post facts/research backing up many of your claims. Otherwise, it is pure hearsay. Thanks.

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