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ShinerBock

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Posted: 06/29/21 07:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Learjet wrote:

I run some Diesel Kleen through my Cummins from time to time... when I get bored.


It is good to do from time to time. I can tell when carbon has built up on my injectors because their min/max calibration is getting further out which I see with my Cummins software. Basically, the injector is adjusting the fuel rate because of the build-up. I would wager that I would probably be able to tell on the dyno as well, however, it would likely be very slight unless it was really bad.

Without this software, it is really hard to tell unless you meticulously track calculated fuel economy records and drive the same roads every day to be able to see the difference. Another way you can tell is vibrations, but this is really hard to tell in the Cummins unless it gets really bad. In my diesel car, you can easily feel even the slightest vibration.

I find it quite odd that people will spend all this money on synthetic oil when it is not needed for their application yet chastise others that spend less money to keep their fuel system and cylinders/injectors clean so their engine runs at optimum efficiency/performance. It makes no sense especially when the fuel system and injectors will likely fail long before you will see any added wear from using conventional oil. Not sure if it is ignorance or arrogance.

* This post was edited 06/29/21 08:51am by ShinerBock *


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Posted: 06/29/21 09:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Shiner hop over to Sweet Lou's thread and see if you can help him.


2015 RAM LongHorn 3500 Dually CrewCab 4X4 CUMMINS/AISIN RearAir 385HP/865TQ 4:10's
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FishOnOne

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Posted: 06/29/21 10:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I've been running probably over 90% ExxonMobil diesel efficient diesel in my truck for a few years now. I believe it keeps your injectors cleaner and emission system cleaner than any other diesel on the market.

Diesel Efficient 1

Diesel Efficient 2

Diesel Efficient 3

This fuel was validated at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio Texas.


'12 Ford Super Duty FX4 ELD CC 6.7 PSD 400HP 800ft/lbs
"250k Miles"
'16 Sprinter 319MKS "Wide Body"


ShinerBock

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Posted: 06/29/21 11:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

I've been running probably over 90% ExxonMobil diesel efficient diesel in my truck for a few years now. I believe it keeps your injectors cleaner and emission system cleaner than any other diesel on the market.

Diesel Efficient 1

Diesel Efficient 2

Diesel Efficient 3

This fuel was validated at the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio Texas.


Ironically my car does not like this fuel. Not sure why because it is a good fuel, but my car has a noticeable vibration at idle every time I put this stuff in it. My truck doesn't care as much about fuel, but the CP4.1 and piezo injectors in my car are finicky as hell about fuel. Probably because it is tuned to run on 50 cetane fuel.

I have a few friends that work at SWR. One tests fuels and chemicals and the other does military projects and research that he can't talk about. My wife was going to work there as a chemist, but became a pharmaceutical scientist instead since it paid a lot more with better benefits.

* This post was last edited 06/29/21 11:59am by ShinerBock *   View edit history

TravelinDog

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Posted: 06/29/21 04:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

Not me, but I've never used that kind of stuff on anything. It's always just seemed like a waste of money.


There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind. The only time an additive may be helpful is in extremely cold climates to prevent fuel gelling.
People who use additive use them because the BELIEVE it is helpful.
As long as the do not cause damage I guess there is no harm in wasting those $$.


Just say no to the payload police ">

ShinerBock

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Posted: 06/29/21 05:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TravelinDog wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Not me, but I've never used that kind of stuff on anything. It's always just seemed like a waste of money.


There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind. The only time an additive may be helpful is in extremely cold climates to prevent fuel gelling.
People who use additive use them because the BELIEVE it is helpful.
As long as the do not cause damage I guess there is no harm in wasting those $$.


I use additives sometimes and I don't BELEIVE they work, I KNOW. I seen the effects of proper additives an a lower quality fuel has on an engine with my own eyes when I worked at Cummins and from research done by a friend who works at SWR. If additives do not work, then why do top fuel brands add additives to their fuel? No name brands general add the least possible to meet regulations.

So where did you work or what research have you seen/done to know they don't work?

Lynnmor

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Posted: 06/29/21 06:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TravelinDog wrote:

IdaD wrote:

Not me, but I've never used that kind of stuff on anything. It's always just seemed like a waste of money.


There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind. The only time an additive may be helpful is in extremely cold climates to prevent fuel gelling.
People who use additive use them because the BELIEVE it is helpful.
As long as the do not cause damage I guess there is no harm in wasting those $$.


The manual for my 6.7 Ford diesel does include recommendations for fuel additives. You’re welcome.





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Posted: 06/30/21 07:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TravelinDog wrote:

There are no owners manuals that make any mention of using additives of any kind.

LOL. Bye-don for brains.
[image]

ShinerBock

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Posted: 06/30/21 07:08am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Finally was able to find a PDF version of this service bulletin from my Quickserve. Many times I can see these service bulletins on my Cummins Quickserve login, but I cannot post them on forums because I have no means of making them web viewable

Here is what Cummins says on the matter...

Fuels for Cummins Engines

Note that they say this right before they list the minimum fuel requirements.

"This section presents the Cummins Inc. required fuel specifications.
Fuels meeting national and international specifications can be used if they observe the
specifications listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications. Cummins®
engines will operate satisfactorily on fuels meeting all the properties listed in Table 1;
however, fuels meeting only the required specifications will not give the same level of performance,
efficiency, reliability, or maintenance costs as premium fuels

"

Looking at the table, the minimum cetane for temps above 32F is 42 and 45 below 32F. The federal standard that most states use(besides Texas and California) has a minimum cetane rating of 40. So in these other states, you may even be using fuel that doesn't meet Cummins' minimum fuel quality and therefore additional additives may be needed to bring that fuel up to these standards.

They clearly state that a greater cetane rating will improve performance and efficiency. They also discuss carbon buildup and what it does to the engine.

Here is what they say regarding additives.

"Cummins® engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially
available diesel fuel as listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications;
therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.
In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are
peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends
consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Inc. Service Engineering Department prior to
the use of fuel additives.
Among the situations where additives can prove useful are the following:
1. A cetane improver additive can be used with low cetane fuels.
2. A pour point depressant or flow improver additive can help with high pour point fuels.
3. A wax crystal modifier can help with fuels with high cold filter plugging points (CFPP).
4. An anti-icer can help prevent ice formation in wet fuel during cold weather.
5. An anti-oxidant or storage stability additive can help with fuel system deposits and poor
storage stability.
6. A lubricity enhancer can be used to increase the lubricity of fuels so that they meet the
specifications in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications.
7. A biocide or fungicide can help when fuels are prone to contamination with bacteria or
fungus. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Cummins
Filtration™ Kathon FP 1.5 Microbicide (quart - CC2661 and gallon - CC2663) is the only
product approved by Cummins Inc. to treat fuels with biological contamination problems.
8. Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588) can be used
with low cetane fuels to boost cetane values. Although other additives are available that
will boost the cetane number, Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel
Additive is the only diesel fuel additive approved by Cummins Inc. for cetane number
improvement.
9. Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner Base (pint - CC2598, quart - CC2597, 5
gallons - CC2549, and 55 gallons - CC2550) and Asphaltene Conditioner Concentrate
(2.5 gallons - CC2596, Bulk - CC2559) or Cummins Filtration™ Turbo Diesel All Season
Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588), can be used to clean carbon deposits from injectors and
improve lubricity in fuels that fall below the recommended lubricity specification in Table
1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications. Although other additives can
provide some performance benefits, Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner, and
Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive are the only diesel fuel additives approved by
Cummins Inc. for use with fuels that do not meet the lubricity specification in Table 1...

"

BTW, this service bulletin was updated in 2017, but nothing changed in regards to what is quoted.

* This post was edited 06/30/21 08:19am by ShinerBock *

TravelinDog

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Posted: 06/30/21 02:27pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Your fuel may meet the standard, you don't know. I have yet to see any diesel pumps that show the cetane rating anywhere.
Using additives because your fuel "may" not meet standards? Nuts!
Bigfoot "may" exist but probably not.

ShinerBock-From your own cut and paste article.
"Cummins® engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially
available diesel fuel as listed in Table 1: Cummins Inc. Required Diesel Fuel Specifications;
therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.
In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are
peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends
consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Inc. Service Engineering Department prior to
the use of fuel additives.

* This post was edited 06/30/21 02:38pm by TravelinDog *

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