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Alberta

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Posted: 07/21/21 07:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

You are making your own conclusion that hasn't been shown.

The data shows that you are more likely to Be IN A COLLISION if driving at the much slower speed. It does NOT show that the slow driving person is the CAUSE of the collision. Per the data from the NHTSA study, the CAUSE of that collision is most likely because the other driver was distracted, speeding, tailgating, not correctly judging the amount of space, overcorrecting, falling asleep, etc.


You are still focused on finding fault. I'm talking about eliminating accidents. I don't care about "fault" I want to eliminate crashes.


I want to enjoy driving and eliminating crashes is not that terribly important to me. Reducing speed limits for everyone because we know that some are texting while driving or for some other reason are incapable of driving 80 mph down a divided highway is frustrating. Occasionally we drive in a small city that has determined that some people are incapable of safely making left hand turns at uncontrolled intersections … they’ve got concrete curbs poured all over everywhere forcing traffic to make safe right hand turns…. I find driving to be getting more and more frustrating the safer it gets.


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Thunderbolt

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Posted: 07/21/21 08:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MFL wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

"but as you increase speed you also need more distance to give enough time to react"

My statement does exactly that! Faster you drive there will be more distance between you. Two seconds at 90 the distance between will be greater than at 55.

I stand by Mr Purvis' drivers ed recommendations many years later.


Exactly...I knew someone would question this, not thinking it through! I drove to drivers ed, but was not old enough to have a license yet. D's ed was fun, and I did learn from the experience.

Jerry

I have thought it through and regardless I stand by that 2 seconds will not be enough at greater speeds. Even though the distance will be greater I just don't see the increase being enough to compensate for the increased stopping distance it would take to react and actually stop if something happens in front of you. Most of the accidents as well as traffic jams I see on my 40 mile commute to work are from people following to close to the cars in front of them. I understand what you guys are talking about as I was taught the 2 second rule as well, but I just don't think it is enough at greater speeds. To each there own.


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Posted: 07/21/21 10:19am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 2 second rule is decent, but they say that stopping distance increases at about the square of speed. So if you're going twice as fast, the stopping distance is 4 times as long as it was at the slower speed. So you're probably right that the 2 second rule doesn't work as well at higher speeds.


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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 07/21/21 10:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The braking and handling of cars now compared to 1973 when I took my Drivers Ed simply do not compare. 2 seconds then makes 2 seconds now much safer.

Our teacher had us set in a chair in front of the class one at a time. He held a yardstick by the tips of his fingers with it dangling to the left of our right foot at one foot off the ground. He would let go and the challenge was to hit the stick before it hit the ground once he let it loose. No one could do this. He used this as an example of how long it takes to react.

Great teacher, when traveling at 70 on I-5 he always kept on us saying "keep it on the top side of 70". It was actually scary doing so in a 72 LTD boat of a car going thru the curves along Lake Samish.


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Posted: 07/21/21 11:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


They changed the wording from "at least one car length per every 10mph" to "at least three seconds" because it is easier to figure out.


I don't think that going down the road counting one thousand one, one thousand two, etc. and restart when another car pulls in front of you is easier than to estimate a car length behind a vehicle. in any event, there will not be any precision into any method is used to determine distance.
bumpy


Many people have difficulty estimating distances. And what "is" a car length? Is it a vw bug or a pickup or a sedan or a station wagon? Counting to three seconds takes those arguments out of the equation.


is that count to three, or one onethousand, two two thousand, etc.? what cadence do you use? when that car length was used many years ago I would assume that it was for a standard sized vehicle so it would probably equate to 1.273 of today's vehicle length.
bumpy [emoticon]





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Posted: 07/21/21 12:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bumpyroad wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


They changed the wording from "at least one car length per every 10mph" to "at least three seconds" because it is easier to figure out.


I don't think that going down the road counting one thousand one, one thousand two, etc. and restart when another car pulls in front of you is easier than to estimate a car length behind a vehicle. in any event, there will not be any precision into any method is used to determine distance.
bumpy


Many people have difficulty estimating distances. And what "is" a car length? Is it a vw bug or a pickup or a sedan or a station wagon? Counting to three seconds takes those arguments out of the equation.


is that count to three, or one onethousand, two two thousand, etc.? what cadence do you use? when that car length was used many years ago I would assume that it was for a standard sized vehicle so it would probably equate to 1.273 of today's vehicle length.
bumpy [emoticon]


You're just being silly now. Is that 1.273 of a fiat or a Suburban?


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Posted: 07/21/21 01:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thunderbolt wrote:

MFL wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

"but as you increase speed you also need more distance to give enough time to react"

My statement does exactly that! Faster you drive there will be more distance between you. Two seconds at 90 the distance between will be greater than at 55.

I stand by Mr Purvis' drivers ed recommendations many years later.


Exactly...I knew someone would question this, not thinking it through! I drove to drivers ed, but was not old enough to have a license yet. D's ed was fun, and I did learn from the experience.

Jerry

I have thought it through and regardless I stand by that 2 seconds will not be enough at greater speeds. Even though the distance will be greater I just don't see the increase being enough to compensate for the increased stopping distance it would take to react and actually stop if something happens in front of you. Most of the accidents as well as traffic jams I see on my 40 mile commute to work are from people following to close to the cars in front of them. I understand what you guys are talking about as I was taught the 2 second rule as well, but I just don't think it is enough at greater speeds. To each there own.


The rule is actually "at least three seconds" not "two seconds". As I mentioned above, the two seconds started being used to try to get commuters to back off the car in front of them without having them complain about other vehicles moving into that empty space.

The "at least" is to account for other factors - such as high speeds.

Bumpyroad

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Posted: 07/21/21 01:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Bumpyroad wrote:

toedtoes wrote:


They changed the wording from "at least one car length per every 10mph" to "at least three seconds" because it is easier to figure out.


I don't think that going down the road counting one thousand one, one thousand two, etc. and restart when another car pulls in front of you is easier than to estimate a car length behind a vehicle. in any event, there will not be any precision into any method is used to determine distance.
bumpy


Many people have difficulty estimating distances. And what "is" a car length? Is it a vw bug or a pickup or a sedan or a station wagon? Counting to three seconds takes those arguments out of the equation.


is that count to three, or one onethousand, two two thousand, etc.? what cadence do you use? when that car length was used many years ago I would assume that it was for a standard sized vehicle so it would probably equate to 1.273 of today's vehicle length.
bumpy [emoticon]


You're just being silly now. Is that 1.273 of a fiat or a Suburban?


I have to agree. this discussion is silly, bordering on stupid.
bumpy

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Posted: 07/21/21 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Car length maybe 18 feet max.

60 mph gives 108 feet by length, 264 with 3 seconds (88 fps)

Go with the three seconds.


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Thunderbolt

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Posted: 07/21/21 02:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:

The braking and handling of cars now compared to 1973 when I took my Drivers Ed simply do not compare. 2 seconds then makes 2 seconds now much safer.

Our teacher had us set in a chair in front of the class one at a time. He held a yardstick by the tips of his fingers with it dangling to the left of our right foot at one foot off the ground. He would let go and the challenge was to hit the stick before it hit the ground once he let it loose. No one could do this. He used this as an example of how long it takes to react.

Great teacher, when traveling at 70 on I-5 he always kept on us saying "keep it on the top side of 70". It was actually scary doing so in a 72 LTD boat of a car going thru the curves along Lake Samish.

I know what you mean about the handling of the car. I learned in a 74 Dodge Monaco which is about the same. After driving one of those cars any new car today feels like a sports car.

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