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Posted: 08/19/21 06:31pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wish they would install roving STOP SIGN cameras. When did the word STOP take on a new meaning, just yield? I was always taught the STOP means to come to a complete STOP, then you go. Most people treat stop signs as if they are a yield, and just roll on thru.

Alex and Tee

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Posted: 08/20/21 03:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I lived in AZ when they installed cameras on the 101 loop around Phoenix. It was very effective slowing down all the morons that were driving 100 plus miles and hour. Until someone pulled off and shot a maintenance guy working on one and then they pulled them all out.

I also liked the red light camera's as people would continue to go through the yellows and wind up blocking the intersection so when the light turned green for the other direction no one could move. It stopped all that for awhile too.

I am a HUGE fan of camera use for any infraction. Police can't be everywhere and it frees them up for more important work. Revenue generator? Not if you don't break the law!


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fj12ryder

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Posted: 08/20/21 04:15pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"...it frees them up for more important work." You mean like getting fresh donuts?

The Sixth Amendment provides that a person accused of a crime has the right to confront a witness against him or her in a criminal action.

How exactly does that work with a camera?


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Alex and Tee

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Posted: 08/20/21 05:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 6th amendment applies to criminal offenses. Traffic tickets are civil offenses. That said, if the only evidence of a criminal offense is security camera footage, does that render the criminal free to go?

“Your accuser is the People of the State, and the witnesses would be the individuals working for the company retained by the state (or the pertinent locality) who can testify from personal knowledge and business records about the accuracy of the images taken by the red light camera as reflecting the fact that your vehicle ran the red light. If you'd like to challenge on 6th Amendment grounds, knock yourself out, just make sure to research first whether, and how often, that argument has been raised because if it's been raised (and knocked down) often enough the judges are usually very tired of hearing the same shopworn arguments.”

fj12ryder

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Posted: 08/20/21 06:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Well, at least we agree that running a red light isn't a crime. [emoticon]

Etstorm

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Posted: 08/20/21 08:59pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cptqueeg wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

way2roll wrote:

mr. ed wrote:

If I learn that an intersection has one of those “red light” cameras, i plan future trips in that location taking different routes, even if it’s a longer distance just so I can avoid that intersection. Fortunately, many cities are getting rid of theses “traps”, which were just devious ways to fine you unjustly. I’m dismayed to learn my location, Amarillo, still uses these cameras, whereas several other TX cities have stopped doing so.


Curious why folks think they are "traps". If you aren't doing what you aren't supposed to be doing it's a moot point. If someone robs your store at night and a camera is enough to catch and prosecute them, that's a good thing. If you break a traffic law and a camera catches you, somehow it's a trap and an infringement on your rights?
Many people think they're traps because they are. Don't forget that the people who make the most money from those cameras are the companies that build and install them. There have been reports that the duration of the yellow light was shortened after installation of red light cameras. And they do nothing to prevent accidents, they just slap the hand of the offender after the fact. Pure revenue generation.



Red light cameras change driver's willingness to run red lights. And real cops hand out plenty of tickets at intersections w short duration yellows as well. Some have been known to trigger light changes w sensors built in the street to intentionally trap victims. But RLC don't involve risk on the part of the cops nor the driver, nor does it count against insurance and the insurance companies make the most when cops hand out tickets for moving violations.

Unjust enforcement of laws is a huge problem, but RLC and the like are little reminders to obey traffic laws w/out the risk and expense of cops handing out tickets.


So if you run a red light and get a ticket, how is that unjust?

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Posted: 08/21/21 05:12am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

Well, at least we agree that running a red light isn't a crime. [emoticon]


I question that statement because I know people have died because somebody ran a red light.

While I'm not a big fan of using cameras for traffic enforcement, if properly used, (never are) I could see a help.
Examples; video of traffic flow, to meter entrance ramp. If that video sees somebody steel a trucks stopping distance, and doesn't leave himself room to stop, pull him over, tow the car, take him in for a 24 hr hold to determine way he wants suicide.
Or set up speed cameras in construction zone. But don't mail a ticket. Stop them at end of zone, take back to start. For every MPH over the limit, spend 10 minutes blindfolded and strapped to a barrel next to the traffic flow.
For red lights? Film the intersection, and the line of cars waiting. Mail out tickets to people that take that time to clean the trash out of their car. That could pay for the camera system. And when there was a accident, the judge could know who is lying.

Horsedoc

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Posted: 08/21/21 07:35am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Twenty seven years on the job. When working traffic I figured my job was to change the manner of the offender's driving. Doing so could involve several ways. Sometimes just seeing my car on the side of the road 'lookin' would slow them down. Sometimes flashing my light would do it. Other times, much depending on the speed of the offender, pulling him over and having a discussion would do it. This discussion might result in a verbal warning, a written warning or even a 'follow me to the courthouse' where a Magistrate would set the bond or fine (if the offender admitted the offense)
Many times a driver would be drinking or even under the influence of alcohol or drugs and still be driving pretty good except for the speed. That is when we (law enforcement) had to decide if he was less safe with the alcohol in his system.
All this is negated when that little camera takes the photo. Is the jurisdiction any safer? not a whit! But, they are happy to accept the money, check or credit card as a fine for the speeding.
Was there anything that 'warned' the driver to slow down before or after the camera? There MIGHT have been a small sign at the city limits sign that said "speed limit electronically enforced", but this was more because of the laws rather than slowing down a speeder.

way2roll

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Posted: 08/22/21 07:16am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Horsedoc wrote:

Twenty seven years on the job. When working traffic I figured my job was to change the manner of the offender's driving. Doing so could involve several ways. Sometimes just seeing my car on the side of the road 'lookin' would slow them down. Sometimes flashing my light would do it. Other times, much depending on the speed of the offender, pulling him over and having a discussion would do it. This discussion might result in a verbal warning, a written warning or even a 'follow me to the courthouse' where a Magistrate would set the bond or fine (if the offender admitted the offense)
Many times a driver would be drinking or even under the influence of alcohol or drugs and still be driving pretty good except for the speed. That is when we (law enforcement) had to decide if he was less safe with the alcohol in his system.
All this is negated when that little camera takes the photo. Is the jurisdiction any safer? not a whit! But, they are happy to accept the money, check or credit card as a fine for the speeding.
Was there anything that 'warned' the driver to slow down before or after the camera? There MIGHT have been a small sign at the city limits sign that said "speed limit electronically enforced", but this was more because of the laws rather than slowing down a speeder.


Your "warning" is the fact that you are approaching an intersection and the yellow means stop if you can't safely make the intersection. Red of course means stop. Why is this even a conversation? All just rhetoric. If you run a red light, it's a crime. Period. The fact that a camera saw you instead of an officer is a moot point. Does the crime not occur? If you run a red light and hit and injure or kill someone, now it's serious. Would you be glad the camera is there then? The victim and their families sure would. This isn't a theoretic tree in the forest. It's a binary set of facts. Who needs to be "warned" about what to do at an intersection? It's driving 101. Modifying driving behavior won't work. Anyone who willingly runs a red light doesn't need behavior modification. Selfish people too much in a hurry that they ignore laws and jeopardize other people for their own convenience should't be able to drive in the first place. Anyone who wants to argue that their rights are violated because they got caught breaking the law by a camera obviously never had someone they know killed in an accident because someone ran a red light. You'd cry about taxes going up to put a cop at every intersection so the solution is very simple. Don't run red lights and you won't need to worry about a camera. It's amazing these "arguments" even come up.

* This post was edited 08/22/21 07:37am by an administrator/moderator *


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Alex and Tee

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Posted: 08/22/21 07:34am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

X 100

At some point in the future, not in our lifetimes, vehicular travel will all be controlled by technology. Sensors in the roadway and sensors in vehicles will regulate speed, distance between vehicles, traffic flow, etc. There will be no more speeding, no more following too close, no more running lights. All vehicles will be basically autonomous. Input your destination and hit go. Sit back and enjoy the scenery.

* This post was edited 08/22/21 07:41am by Alex and Tee *

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