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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Traction control systems and trailer sway bars

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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/30/21 09:05am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mike134 wrote:

ognend wrote:


Excuse me for ruining your day up there on the pedestal of towing Gods. Jeez.


Have to excuse him, he's got over 15,000 posts (average 5 a day) so he's "that guy" at the campground bar.


Yes, my apologies. Would it have made a difference if I just simply said “you don’t need it”?
Doubtful. That would have gathered the same crosswise reactions from all of those that believe you can’t leave the house without your wdh, virtually regardless of the type/size of trailer being pulled.
Fwiw, that “theory” lives almost exclusively with the RV crowd. Not sure why, but suspect inexperienced drivers and good RV salesman have a good part in it.
Furthermore, horse trailers in general are designed with the axles farther aft than say a typical TT or utility trailer. Why? To ensure adequate tongue weight on a “non adjustable” but variable load. Horses move around right? If they could move too far aft, they would create a bad towing situation.
But as I don’t agree with the “you need a wdh” for everything moniker, carry on.
Regardless, the stability control of the vehicle is not a good substitute for sway control, if it’s actually needed. It would tax the vehicle and/or trailers brake systems almost constantly with a trailer that was un-duly squirrelly.
Vehicle systems also work on a different premise. While anti sway hitches make it hard to turn or pivot on the stinger, resulting in a straighter pull, vehicle systems use brakes and throttle, mostly brakes, to yank a trailer back straight.
Proactive vs reactive systems is a good descriptor.

Again, sorry because y’all likely don’t want to hear this from me….

* This post was edited 08/30/21 09:15am by Grit dog *


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

ognend

Virginia

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Joined: 06/25/2011

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Posted: 08/30/21 02:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

ognend wrote:

time2roll wrote:

I agree with Grit. Will depend on the combo and how it tows without. Also read the complete towing section of the owners' manual as there could be more details than the marketing brochure. Some truck hitches want the weight distribution etc. to go over 5,000 pounds trailer weight. Plenty of larger trailers tow just fine with just a pintle hook.

Give it a go and post the results.


I've been towing this trailer since 2007 with 4 different trucks (1/2 ton, 2 3/4 ton diesels and now a 1-ton DRW cab/chassis) - I always used the same adjustable WD/sway-bar hitch since the trailer has been the same trailer since 2007. I was just hoping to see if I can do without the anti-sway bar on the trailer/hitch and maybe without the weight distribution as well. The trailer has a GVWR of 7,000lbs and my current truck is 8800lbs. I read my towing section of the truck manual and I understand about weight distribution in trailer and need to have 10-15% of trailer weight on the hitch.


Sorry, not angry, just presented a couple scenarios where you would or wouldn’t need trailer sway or wdh.
In the 14ish years you’ve towed the same trailer, with now 4 different trucks, and just blindly hooked up the wdh because you thought it was “needed”, now you’re asking if it’s needed.
Have you once towed it without the wdh and or sway control? How did it handle?
Therein lies your answer.


I always towed with WD/anti-sway, well, because like everyone said, I figured hardware is hardware but also because none of the trucks I had until now had flatbeds that extended low in the back. The current truck has a 9ft4" flatbed that when doing max turning runs into the WD arms of the hitch, hence restricting my maximum turn radius - this is fairly annoying. I did away with the WD arms but kept the anti-sway bar which is not in the way. The trailer pulls just fine but obviously I can't test every imaginable scenario - hence I though I ask if the truck "software" has been show to be capable of replacing the hitch "hardware". Sometimes these systems have been in place for years and after many years of existence, you could get a definitive answer...


--
2021 Chevrolet 3500 DRW Cab&Chassis crew cab 4x4 6.6L gas with 9ft4" flatbed
2021 Palomino HS-2902 Max truck camper
2007 Double D all steel 2-horse bumper pull trailer

ognend

Virginia

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Joined: 06/25/2011

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Posted: 08/30/21 02:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

ognend wrote:


Excuse me for ruining your day up there on the pedestal of towing Gods. Jeez.


Have to excuse him, he's got over 15,000 posts (average 5 a day) so he's "that guy" at the campground bar.


Yes, my apologies. Would it have made a difference if I just simply said “you don’t need it”?
Doubtful. That would have gathered the same crosswise reactions from all of those that believe you can’t leave the house without your wdh, virtually regardless of the type/size of trailer being pulled.
Fwiw, that “theory” lives almost exclusively with the RV crowd. Not sure why, but suspect inexperienced drivers and good RV salesman have a good part in it.
Furthermore, horse trailers in general are designed with the axles farther aft than say a typical TT or utility trailer. Why? To ensure adequate tongue weight on a “non adjustable” but variable load. Horses move around right? If they could move too far aft, they would create a bad towing situation.
But as I don’t agree with the “you need a wdh” for everything moniker, carry on.
Regardless, the stability control of the vehicle is not a good substitute for sway control, if it’s actually needed. It would tax the vehicle and/or trailers brake systems almost constantly with a trailer that was un-duly squirrelly.
Vehicle systems also work on a different premise. While anti sway hitches make it hard to turn or pivot on the stinger, resulting in a straighter pull, vehicle systems use brakes and throttle, mostly brakes, to yank a trailer back straight.
Proactive vs reactive systems is a good descriptor.

Again, sorry because y’all likely don’t want to hear this from me….


This is actually a very nice explanation. Thank you!

IdaD

Idaho

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Joined: 08/06/2014

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Posted: 08/30/21 02:44pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I tend to agree with Grit on this one. I've never even used a WDH, none of the trailers on our farm had them growing up and my dad never bothered with one on our old TT. Our old pop up camper was fine without one. We have a fifth wheel now but there's a very good chance we'll go to a TT or TT Toy Hauler for our next camper and I'll certainly give the basic ball a shot before I spend any money on a WDH. If nothing else at least give it a shot. It might work better than you think.


2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB


ognend

Virginia

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Posted: 08/30/21 08:35pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IdaD wrote:

I tend to agree with Grit on this one. I've never even used a WDH, none of the trailers on our farm had them growing up and my dad never bothered with one on our old TT. Our old pop up camper was fine without one. We have a fifth wheel now but there's a very good chance we'll go to a TT or TT Toy Hauler for our next camper and I'll certainly give the basic ball a shot before I spend any money on a WDH. If nothing else at least give it a shot. It might work better than you think.


Thanks. I am a bit puzzled as to how to approach this. Right now I have the new '21 Chevy DRW cab/chassis truck. I am waiting on delivery of a Palomino HS-2902 Max truck camper which will be around 4200 lbs wet. This leaves me about a 1000-1100 lbs for the bumper pull hitch for my about 6500-6800 lbs horse trailer. I guess I will know once I have the whole combo set up. My guess is that the truck camper will lower the back of the truck enough for the WD to be necessary with the bumper pull hitch. Not excluding the possibility of needing a set of Timbrens or SuperSprings to bring the truck back to level. After it is at level, I will have to determine whether I will need a WD and anti-sway bar. So many variables....

Me Again

Sunbird(Wa)/snowbird(Az)

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Posted: 08/31/21 07:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I do not think a 7K trailer with 700 lbs of hitch weight stands much of a chance of pushing around a 3500 dually truck. Tonnage and wheels on the ground win 99.99% of the time.

* This post was edited 08/31/21 12:55pm by Me Again *


2021 F150 2.7 Ecoboost - Summer Home 2017 Bighorn 3575el. Can Am Spyder RT-L Chrome, Kawasaki KRX1000. Retired and enjoying it!


Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 08/31/21 09:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ognend wrote:


Thanks. I am a bit puzzled as to how to approach this. Right now I have the new '21 Chevy DRW cab/chassis truck. I am waiting on delivery of a Palomino HS-2902 Max truck camper which will be around 4200 lbs wet. This leaves me about a 1000-1100 lbs for the bumper pull hitch for my about 6500-6800 lbs horse trailer. I guess I will know once I have the whole combo set up. My guess is that the truck camper will lower the back of the truck enough for the WD to be necessary with the bumper pull hitch. Not excluding the possibility of needing a set of Timbrens or SuperSprings to bring the truck back to level. After it is at level, I will have to determine whether I will need a WD and anti-sway bar. So many variables....

Whether you need sway control is not predicated at all on whether a camper is on the truck. WD, yes, maybe, if you need to pull weight off the truck's rear axle and don't want to add to the suspension.

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