RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: GM and others shutting down production.

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > GM and others shutting down production.

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
BenK

SF BayArea

Senior Member

Joined: 04/18/2002

View Profile



Posted: 09/03/21 10:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lost that battle...several times while still working...

When the corporation was noodling outsourcing manufacturing (a $17billion per year revenue corp)...argued to executive staff that we were paying them to build up their infrastructure & become a competitor...lost that one.

Next battle was when they were noodling outsourcing manufacturing design...lost that one too.

CEO came over to my office (around the corner from his) and sat down...oh, oh...he said keep up the good work, but he (was also the board chair) said the stockholders demand reducing cost...added: "at any cost" and he got it, but said "they don't care, nor do they understand"...

Next was over outsourcing our engineering design...this time made a HUGE stink and almost got fired (divisional GM's yelled at my boss), but the CEO and I had another talk...and his comment was that the executive bonuses were based on quarterly performance. Both revenue growth and stock market performance...while 'they' had an outlook farther than the current or next quarter...years outlook vs our stupid quarterly outlook

Then the huge manufacturing campuses were built by our money...they switched location on us and forced us to build another one 'over there' and took over that first campus.

"We Americans" paid 'them' to become our peers. First in manufacturing, then design, then in raw everything from initial conception to shipping finished products to 'us' over here.

All the while paid them to build & produce things they would have taken several decades to get up to that level.

Too many...most...blame the US Government, but so misplaced...it is the shareholder demanding the "cheapest at any cost" and "higher stock prices"...which is "us" the citizens of America...


BobsYourUncle wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Too bad we don't have the know how/technology/workforce/ability/desire to produce these chips in the US.
Sadly, one of the biggest reasons they outsource a lot of these parts is the cost. I'd love to see 100% of our products made on our own turf, but the costs would skyrocket. We think prices are high now.....
I'm sure they have the technology but let's face it, local labor costs a lot more than foreign labor.



-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

Lwiddis

Monterey, California

Senior Member

Joined: 08/12/2016

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 11:18am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

When I look all I see are "in transit."


Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2020 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, 300 watt solar-parallel & MPPT, Trojan T-125s. TALL flag pole. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist14 yr. Army vet-11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad


goducks10

There

Senior Member

Joined: 02/22/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 12:16pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Intel could start making chips if they use existing fab plants. As an Oregonian and in commercial construction for 30 years I've worked on projects involving new buildings for Inntel. It takes years to get one up and running.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/intel........s-within-six-nine-months-ceo-2021-04-12/

Groover

Pulaski, TN

Senior Member

Joined: 10/17/2007

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 12:24pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BenK wrote:

Lost that battle...several times while still working...

When the corporation was noodling outsourcing manufacturing (a $17billion per year revenue corp)...argued to executive staff that we were paying them to build up their infrastructure & become a competitor...lost that one.

Next battle was when they were noodling outsourcing manufacturing design...lost that one too.

CEO came over to my office (around the corner from his) and sat down...oh, oh...he said keep up the good work, but he (was also the board chair) said the stockholders demand reducing cost...added: "at any cost" and he got it, but said "they don't care, nor do they understand"...

Next was over outsourcing our engineering design...this time made a HUGE stink and almost got fired (divisional GM's yelled at my boss), but the CEO and I had another talk...and his comment was that the executive bonuses were based on quarterly performance. Both revenue growth and stock market performance...while 'they' had an outlook farther than the current or next quarter...years outlook vs our stupid quarterly outlook

Then the huge manufacturing campuses were built by our money...they switched location on us and forced us to build another one 'over there' and took over that first campus.

"We Americans" paid 'them' to become our peers. First in manufacturing, then design, then in raw everything from initial conception to shipping finished products to 'us' over here.

All the while paid them to build & produce things they would have taken several decades to get up to that level.

Too many...most...blame the US Government, but so misplaced...it is the shareholder demanding the "cheapest at any cost" and "higher stock prices"...which is "us" the citizens of America...


BobsYourUncle wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Too bad we don't have the know how/technology/workforce/ability/desire to produce these chips in the US.
Sadly, one of the biggest reasons they outsource a lot of these parts is the cost. I'd love to see 100% of our products made on our own turf, but the costs would skyrocket. We think prices are high now.....
I'm sure they have the technology but let's face it, local labor costs a lot more than foreign labor.


I have been there too but I disagree on the role of the government. All costs "here" make producing products "there" more attractive. Those costs include EPA compliance, OSHA compliance, taxes, Social Security "contributions", financial audit compliance, etc. I was working for Ingersoll Rand when they moved their legal headquarters to Bermuda and with a stroke of a pen saved themselves $160 million/year in taxes. Outsourcing cast iron production to China saved about half a million per years in EPA compliance but the environment gets polluted even more.

There were a lot of other factors but the government was no small contributor to the eventual closing of the plant that I worked in.

I do agree that Americans in general are too focused on the next quarter instead of long term. I have noticed that in the automobile industry the companies under foreign management have been gaining against American managed companies for the last 50 years, even with production facilities in the U.S.

I am not saying that the government requirements are bad in themselves. But, if we allow countries that don't have those costs built into their products to undercut American workers we can expect to be unemployed. And unemployed people don't pay taxes to support our government programs.

* This post was edited 09/03/21 01:25pm by Groover *

spoon059

Just north of D.C.

Senior Member

Joined: 10/03/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 01:51pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Too bad we don't have the know how/technology/workforce/ability/desire to produce these chips in the US.

$15/hour minimum wage would make that exceptionally cost prohibitive.


2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

spoon059

Just north of D.C.

Senior Member

Joined: 10/03/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 02:01pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Anyone thinking to avoid these trucks as possibly problematic?

Tires breaking down. Rubber belts degrading. Rubber seals degrading. Paint oxidizing.

Yea, I could see some issues.


Umm yeah, no, not really. Not at all, unless they sit for years and years.
And, based on current inventory and prices, don’t really see an issue with the mfgs off loading them. The longer the shortage, the more the demand.

Umm yeah, seen it happen with cars my employer bought. They sat for over a year. Batteries were completely dead and needed to be replaced. Many of them had oil leaks due to dry rotted seals. Tires had flat spots from sitting. It happens.

Look into it. Most car batteries will have significant voltage drop at 2 months. These are sitting for a year? Strong chance they are ruined. https://blog.nationwide.com/can-car-battery-go-dead-from-sitting/

A year of sitting in the sun and not being driven, with the full weight on the tires?
https://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/blog/tires/what-causes-tire-flat-spots/#

Erie Insurance has a blog about stored vehicles and potential problems. https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/how-long-can-your-car-sit

So does Edmunds. https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/how-to-prep-your-car-for-long-term-storage.html

I forgot about fuel breaking down in the tanks. Oil thats started to breakdown. Pests getting into things.

monkey44

Cape Cod, MA and Central Fla

Senior Member

Joined: 11/12/2002

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 02:05pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Too bad we don't have the know how/technology/workforce/ability/desire to produce these chips in the US.

$15/hour minimum wage would make that exceptionally cost prohibitive.


No law against paying more than minimum wage for trained and skilled employees. If we had brought that work back to USA, we would not be in this dilemma. It's not just trucks either.

It's the untrained, unskilled workers that are not worth that pay.


Monkey44
Cape Cod Ma & Central Fla
Chevy 2500HD 4x4 DC-SB
2008 Lance 845
Back-country camping fanatic

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 02:14pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wing_zealot wrote:

You got to be kidding! We can’t even do something as relatively benign as drill for oil in this country let alone something as Environmentally Friendly as strip mining for lithium or silicon. Hard to manufacture chips when you don’t have the raw material to do it with.


True. Sad, but true...


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

spoon059

Just north of D.C.

Senior Member

Joined: 10/03/2010

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 02:26pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

monkey44 wrote:

No law against paying more than minimum wage for trained and skilled employees. If we had brought that work back to USA, we would not be in this dilemma. It's not just trucks either.

It's the untrained, unskilled workers that are not worth that pay.

Perhaps the guy actually making the part deserves more than $15 an hour... but what about when you have to pay the janitor $15 an hour to clean up, the parts guy $15 an hour to order parts, the warehouse guy $15 an hour to move parts, the parking attendant $15 an hour to help people park, the lady behind the lunch counter $15 an hour to warm up food, etc etc?

It quickly becomes unsustainable.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 09/03/21 02:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

time2roll wrote:

Anyone thinking to avoid these trucks as possibly problematic?

Tires breaking down. Rubber belts degrading. Rubber seals degrading. Paint oxidizing.

Yea, I could see some issues.


Umm yeah, no, not really. Not at all, unless they sit for years and years.
And, based on current inventory and prices, don’t really see an issue with the mfgs off loading them. The longer the shortage, the more the demand.

Umm yeah, seen it happen with cars my employer bought. They sat for over a year. Batteries were completely dead and needed to be replaced. Many of them had oil leaks due to dry rotted seals. Tires had flat spots from sitting. It happens.

Look into it. Most car batteries will have significant voltage drop at 2 months. These are sitting for a year? Strong chance they are ruined. https://blog.nationwide.com/can-car-battery-go-dead-from-sitting/

A year of sitting in the sun and not being driven, with the full weight on the tires?
https://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/blog/tires/what-causes-tire-flat-spots/#

Erie Insurance has a blog about stored vehicles and potential problems. https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/how-long-can-your-car-sit

So does Edmunds. https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/how-to-prep-your-car-for-long-term-storage.html

I forgot about fuel breaking down in the tanks. Oil thats started to breakdown. Pests getting into things.


I agree, it is better, in general, for a vehicle to be driven, and not just parked, and dead batteries, not able to be recharged are probably the most common issue.

But beyond that, again, unless we're talking alot more than a year, or even 2, a new or reasonably new car will not leak oil, flat spot tires and oxidize the paint.

That's overly dramatic.

How many years before a newish un-garaged car gets the paint baked to the point of damage by the sun? Even in Arizona, lets say?
I'll go with well over 5 and probably around 10. Lesser UV exposure climates, even longer.
Radial tires don't flat spot permanently, engine oil doesn't go "bad", new oil doesn't even have acids in it, why would they have fuel added if they weren't drivable?

Again, idk what vehicles your employer had that started falling apart parked for a year, maybe Fords, LOL!!
But the issue isn't some cars sat in a parking lot for a year.

This Topic Is Closed  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > GM and others shutting down production.
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2021 CWI, Inc. © 2021 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.