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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > GM and others shutting down production.

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fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 09/03/21 03:27pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hmm, so paying someone the necessary amount so they can afford to buy what they build is unsustainable? I'll have to think about that one.


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spoon059

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Posted: 09/03/21 03:50pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

fj12ryder wrote:

Hmm, so paying someone the necessary amount so they can afford to buy what they build is unsustainable? I'll have to think about that one.

Hmm, so we should pay everyone enough money that they can afford a Lamborghini? The guy that sweeps the floor at NASA should be able to afford a space shuttle? How about the guy that delivers the rivets that assemble the newest cruise ship... he should be paid enough to afford to buy a cruise ship? Think about that too...

For what its worth, I get paid quite a bit more than $15/hour and I can't comfortably afford a top of the line GMC Denali. How much more should I demand from my employer so that I can afford expensive luxuries?

* This post was edited 09/03/21 03:56pm by spoon059 *


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RetiredRealtorRick

St. Augustine Beach, FL

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Posted: 09/03/21 04:19pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

Too bad we don't have the know how/technology/workforce/ability/desire to produce these chips in the US.

$15/hour minimum wage would make that exceptionally cost prohibitive.


At least they'd have trucks to sell!!!!


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goducks10

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Posted: 09/03/21 04:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:

Hmm, so paying someone the necessary amount so they can afford to buy what they build is unsustainable? I'll have to think about that one.

Hmm, so we should pay everyone enough money that they can afford a Lamborghini? The guy that sweeps the floor at NASA should be able to afford a space shuttle? How about the guy that delivers the rivets that assemble the newest cruise ship... he should be paid enough to afford to buy a cruise ship? Think about that too...

For what its worth, I get paid quite a bit more than $15/hour and I can't comfortably afford a top of the line GMC Denali. How much more should I demand from my employer so that I can afford expensive luxuries?


You don't buy chips. You buy what they're used for. Intel doesn't make trucks.

rlw999

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Posted: 09/03/21 05:17pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

monkey44 wrote:

No law against paying more than minimum wage for trained and skilled employees. If we had brought that work back to USA, we would not be in this dilemma. It's not just trucks either.

It's the untrained, unskilled workers that are not worth that pay.

Perhaps the guy actually making the part deserves more than $15 an hour... but what about when you have to pay the janitor $15 an hour to clean up, the parts guy $15 an hour to order parts, the warehouse guy $15 an hour to move parts, the parking attendant $15 an hour to help people park, the lady behind the lunch counter $15 an hour to warm up food, etc etc?

It quickly becomes unsustainable.


A $15 minimum wage only sounds expensive because minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation... In 1980 I was earning $3.50/hour working at a gas station after school. In today's dollars, that's $12/hour. Paying a janitor $15/hour today doesn't sound crazy.

I don't know how much of a chip fab's cost goes to unskilled labor, but fast food is pretty labor intensive (around 30% of the cost of food is labor), and higher wages doesn't have a large effect on prices:

Quote:

Burtless compared prices for two different types of burritos at San Francisco’s 710 Third St. Taco Bell (minimum wage: $16.07) to prices for the same burritos at a Taco Bell in Alexandria, Va., where the state’s minimum wage is currently $7.25 per hour, equal to the federal minimum.

In Alexandria, a Bean Burrito goes for $1.29, while a Burrito Supreme costs $4.19. At the San Francisco location, a Bean Burrito sells for $1.99, and a Burrito Supreme costs $4.19.

The most expensive burrito on the menu, the Crunchwrap Supreme, costs $4.19 in Alexandria and $4.49 in San Francisco, a difference of about 7%.


spoon059

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Posted: 09/03/21 05:31pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

rlw999 wrote:

A $15 minimum wage only sounds expensive because minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation...

Not just minimum wage, ALL wages haven't kept up. When you double the minimum wage and keep my wage stagnant, it punishes me. Then the typical answer is that *I* should be paid more. I work for the government, are you going to be willing to pay more taxes to support my salary increasing by the same percent as the minimum wage? And if so, then YOUR wages need to increase to cover the offset of higher taxes.

See how that works?

Or... people with a marketable skill deserve to be paid better, but people with no/low skills deserve to get paid a much lower rate. Want to earn more, LEARN more. That puts the focus back on the employee, to make themselves a commodity.

Anywho, we've gotten pretty far off topic. My apologies OP. I'm curious to see what happens to the truck market when they start being available again. Are they going to deeply discount the 2021's when the 22's get released? What happens to all the expensive used vehicles that people have bought or traded?

It'll be interesting for sure.

wanderingaimlessly

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Posted: 09/03/21 05:54pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Raising of wages unilaterally raises cost for all goods and services, close to the point of negating all positive effects of the raise. The only real beneficiary, is the government.
Folks who were low enough income to pay no taxes, now will. And the tax tables don't seem to be changed to reflect the old tax rate at the new pay level. Those who were paying 5% in tax will now pay 7 or 8 percent, Those who were paying 10% get upped to 15% and so on. NOBODY pays the same after these raises go into effect.
It is one more case of the Government telling schmucks that they are helping them, when in fact it's the government that benefits most.

rlw999

Washington State

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Posted: 09/03/21 05:56pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

spoon059 wrote:

rlw999 wrote:

A $15 minimum wage only sounds expensive because minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation...

Not just minimum wage, ALL wages haven't kept up. When you double the minimum wage and keep my wage stagnant, it punishes me. Then the typical answer is that *I* should be paid more. I work for the government, are you going to be willing to pay more taxes to support my salary increasing by the same percent as the minimum wage? And if so, then YOUR wages need to increase to cover the offset of higher taxes.

See how that works?



The average household income in 1980 was $21K, that's $42K in today's dollars. The average household income in 2016 was $83K.

Inflation adjusted salaries have been pretty flat since the late 70s with a small increase (higher increase for higher income levels, with the top 1% being a clear outlier)

When you double minimum wage, it just brings minimum wage back to parity with what it was when it began.

Groover

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Posted: 09/04/21 06:21am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The problem with raising wages by law is that if our expensive workers are not protected from cheap competition they will soon find themselves out of work. That is why so few manufactured goods are made in this country. If you can put something in a box and ship it there are people on this planet willing to make those items for a lot less than $15/hr and under a lot worse conditions.

The same is becoming true for office workers. If a job can be done online it can be done anywhere on the planet now.

Service jobs are losing their safety. I can remember when almost every gas station had service bays and had workers pump the gas for you, I think that there is still one in town that does those things but I don't go there because it is too expensive. Plus, cars have been made better so that they need much less maintenance than they used to. My son installs automation for a living. He is rooting for a higher minimum wage so that more employers will be able to justify robots and other forms of automation. I am not making nearly as much money as I used to because my job went to India. India does not return that money to us, it is just gone from our economy.

I would love to see wages here increase but if not done carefully legislation will do more harm than good. One of the biggest things that we need to do is teach our kids a work ethic so that they are actually worth $15/hr or more. My wife and I put a lot of time into teaching our kids how to think and work. All four of them have jobs paying more than $15/hr but too many kids are being raised without skills or work ethic and really are not worth that much.

JRscooby

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Posted: 09/04/21 06:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IMHO, what this country needs more than increase in minimum wage by law is more education of the working class. Not more time in school, but teach them to be skeptical of what they are told.
As a example, what time period was the greatest growth in middle class standard of living? When 1 person could work all week, take weekend to enjoy life, buy house, car, send kids to collage, and expect a better life for the kids? Now, when you have figured out, not for you but for the largest percentage of the population, look at what the top income tax rate was.
I did not go to school as long as most, and did not pay much attention when I was there, but I have always understood that giving somebody that has more money than they can spend even more money will not cause the factories to make more stuff. But if you spread that same money out, give a little to each person that can't buy everything they want, most will use that to buy things, and factories will have to make more things to sell

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