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time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 10/08/21 07:30pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I wonder how many at Princeton have solar on their roof and drive an EV.....


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 10/08/21 09:15pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Electricity versus petroleum includes more than motor vehicles. There are so few examples of all electric homes outside California and perhaps Texas and Florida that obtaining sample data is frustrating.

Do *any* of you know what it takes to HEAT a 2,000 sq foot home when the Delta T is one hundred degrees? People scream in agony when they receive a bill for cooling a home with 30 degrees Delta T. Drop it to 60T or 40T

Add an electric stove, kitchen accessories, fast recovery 50 gallon hot water heater, and presto zingo, you are looking at eight to ten times the power consumption as a motor vehicle.

The government is going to chop carbon emissions by the old classic way. Tax it.

I live in a country that allows the 1st 75 kWh inexpensively. 76 to 150 kWh is double the price 151 to 300 kWh triple that. But wait there's more DATA ALTO CONSUMO allows for "X" total kWh to be consumed in a two-month period. Then the cost triples AGAIN and all lower tiers are eliminated for the next six months to a year. Fifty cents, US per kWh.

Can't be done! Won't be done?

The federal annual mileage tax proposal is a myth. So are Pennsylvania Turnpike Style toll booths and automatic chip readers for cars.

Nahhhhhhhh, they'll NEVER tax out of state purchases...

Unless you are a credentialed electrical engineer that worked with power generation and transmission projections, be very careful about your theories.

Start with this ---
Pencil up a work sheet with 150,000 BTU electric heat, a six burner stove, 50 gallon water heater---

Forget about the car. What size electrical service does an all electric house consume.

Hint: In 1977 The Summit, an all electric, new, luxury subdivision in Lake Tahoe had a revolt by new owners. Their bills were averaging $700 month

To control consumption during the 1972-1974 gasoline shortage, they simply rationed gasoline. Don't be foolish and start believing the USA will not go the way of its southern neighbor and price tier what they consider excessive consumption.

New construction will utilize underground distribution construction, with conductor size amplified 33%. Steel cored aluminum power lines will exceed doubled 1000 MCM cable. The price of aluminum will blast off like copper did.

My crystal ball is becoming clearer. Wait for the day, a $50 or $100 excise tax is passed for LPG and natural gas water heater sales.

Not green, I'll have to settle for a mild TAN down here. Before you show outrage, my TOTAL energy averages 88 kWh monthly. And ten dollars per month in gasoline at $4.00 gallon.

You're champing at the bit, but I'll blow your arguments first, all electric houses are new construction presently in California. But if you're young, brand-new slip-in electric heater replacements will appear. Electricians will be hired, and petroleum energy price increases will encourage you to not delay.

I'm fortunate to have a single-digit years lifespan ahead. It will spare me from hearing all the weeping.

Reisender

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Posted: 10/08/21 09:46pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Electricity versus petroleum includes more than motor vehicles. There are so few examples of all electric homes outside California and perhaps Texas and Florida that obtaining sample data is frustrating.

Do *any* of you know what it takes to HEAT a 2,000 sq foot home when the Delta T is one hundred degrees? People scream in agony when they receive a bill for cooling a home with 30 degrees Delta T. Drop it to 60T or 40T

Add an electric stove, kitchen accessories, fast recovery 50 gallon hot water heater, and presto zingo, you are looking at eight to ten times the power consumption as a motor vehicle.

The government is going to chop carbon emissions by the old classic way. Tax it.

I live in a country that allows the 1st 75 kWh inexpensively. 76 to 150 kWh is double the price 151 to 300 kWh triple that. But wait there's more DATA ALTO CONSUMO allows for "X" total kWh to be consumed in a two-month period. Then the cost triples AGAIN and all lower tiers are eliminated for the next six months to a year. Fifty cents, US per kWh.

Can't be done! Won't be done?

The federal annual mileage tax proposal is a myth. So are Pennsylvania Turnpike Style toll booths and automatic chip readers for cars.

Nahhhhhhhh, they'll NEVER tax out of state purchases...

Unless you are a credentialed electrical engineer that worked with power generation and transmission projections, be very careful about your theories.

Start with this ---
Pencil up a work sheet with 150,000 BTU electric heat, a six burner stove, 50 gallon water heater---

Forget about the car. What size electrical service does an all electric house consume.

Hint: In 1977 The Summit, an all electric, new, luxury subdivision in Lake Tahoe had a revolt by new owners. Their bills were averaging $700 month

To control consumption during the 1972-1974 gasoline shortage, they simply rationed gasoline. Don't be foolish and start believing the USA will not go the way of its southern neighbor and price tier what they consider excessive consumption.

New construction will utilize underground distribution construction, with conductor size amplified 33%. Steel cored aluminum power lines will exceed doubled 1000 MCM cable. The price of aluminum will blast off like copper did.

My crystal ball is becoming clearer. Wait for the day, a $50 or $100 excise tax is passed for LPG and natural gas water heater sales.

Not green, I'll have to settle for a mild TAN down here. Before you show outrage, my TOTAL energy averages 88 kWh monthly. And ten dollars per month in gasoline at $4.00 gallon.

You're champing at the bit, but I'll blow your arguments first, all electric houses are new construction presently in California. But if you're young, brand-new slip-in electric heater replacements will appear. Electricians will be hired, and petroleum energy price increases will encourage you to not delay.

I'm fortunate to have a single-digit years lifespan ahead. It will spare me from hearing all the weeping.




Well, this is our friends totally electric home in BC Canada. Cold winters and very hot summers. Three vehicles, all electric. High efficiency heat pump and water heater and air conditioning. he has a modest sized solar system on the roof and is grid connected. Actually not bad. He has chosen not to go the Tesla power wall route...yet. Seems to work pretty good. He published these results on our discord group. He gave me permission to republish them.




[image]

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 10/09/21 03:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's Delta T temperatures that count.
72°F to freezing is 40
Drop it to 0°F is 70
Again to -20°F and it's 90°F

And family size is critical for hot water heating, and keeping bedrooms at 70°F during the day not 45°F


But thank you for your example.

Reisender

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Posted: 10/09/21 05:22am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

It's Delta T temperatures that count.
72°F to freezing is 40
Drop it to 0°F is 70
Again to -20°F and it's 90°F

And family size is critical for hot water heating, and keeping bedrooms at 70°F during the day not 45°F


But thank you for your example.


My pleasure Mex. I have to admit, you lost me ion the delta T discussion. But that’s probably because I think I’m celcius.

Cheers and stay healthy.

3 tons

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Posted: 10/09/21 07:20am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“EV opponents dont realize or cant comprehend how eficient electric cars,motors are.”

Who are these people?…Maybe this a phantom war??…FWIW, I only know folks who question the ‘imposed mysticism’ surrounding claims of a ‘net carbon reduction’ (“my way or the highway” inquisitors), shameful neighbor-to-neighbor wealth transfer (‘votes for subsidies’ scamming * ), long term grid capabilities (those who regularly live with blackouts), and juvenile ‘virtue signaling’….Other than that (in which opponent's are often viewed as neanderthal eco-Terrorist for their questioning of mass group-think), EV’s are surely fun to drive engineering marvels, but exist without any independent proof of a net carbon reduction…

Having said that, my guess is that folks who generate their own power independent of the grid may be over a time significantly closer to achieving a ‘net carbon’ reality [emoticon]

* (while accepting of other fuzzy theories - what could go wrong, eh??

3 tons

noteven

Turtle Island

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Posted: 10/09/21 08:14am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

noteven wrote:

If you do the back of napkin calculation replacing gasoline use per day in the USA with electric vehicles generating capacity will have to almost double.

That doesn’t include diesel fuel for trucks, machines, and railways.

The power grid now is over 50% fossil fueled so that will need to be fixed as well.

Should be doable easy enough.


I don't know. BC Hydro started working on this back in 2015 and have different calculations than yours. We are an EV only household. Typically 16000 km per year. Our power bill is more affected by air conditioning use than EV use. Our typical commute use is under 8 KW per day which is probably typical for many, at least around here. We are also a non solar house. Those with solar around us pretty much generate all the power they need themselves on an annual basis including charging their cars, heating their homes etc.

Lots of variables. No simple answers but rather an aggregate of many.

Here is a pub BC hydro put out back in 2016. There is other interesting info on their website. Tons of new EV fast chargers in this province from about half a dozen principal players like BC Hydro, Tesla, Petro Canada, Shell, Electrify Canada, FLO etc etc. The grid will adapt and change as needed. Its a thirty year transition.

[image]


I wasn't clear I was looking at the USA. BC's and for that matter Canada's numbers don't apply to the USA.

Also houses sit still, can be built with plenty of insulation and proper situation. There were homes built on the Canadian great plains in the early 80's that are super energy efficient. But they aren't vehicles.

Accoding to the US EIA website:

"Gasoline is the main U.S. transportation fuel
In 2020, Americans used about 123 billion gallons of motor gasoline—or about 337 million gallons per day.."

My doodle calculations took gasoline x 30% efficiency through a combustion engine x equivalent energy if converted to electricity.

The number required almost equals the USA's generating capacity now (according to US EIA capacity numbers.)

I am not opposed to electric powered transportation.

I am asking what is the plan to get the generating and distribution capacity needed.

An all weather RV that could travel 400 miles on a charge and cost 1/6th of equivalent gasoline fuel cost would be a super unit.

Unobtanium

NY

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Posted: 10/09/21 08:49am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ya need a pair of chest waders to negotiate this thread lol.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 10/09/21 09:52am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A review video

https://youtu.be/-1NFbN1YQpI


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 10/09/21 10:02am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

400 kilometers range:

https://youtu.be/B7As3818lTg

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