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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Lithium cost keep dropping!

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time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 10/08/21 07:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Standard shipping from China right now is 90+ days. If it is the regular 75 days promised I would start a dispute at 76 days.

Here is a few legit sellers. Qishou

Docan


Luyuan

* This post was edited 10/08/21 07:28pm by time2roll *


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 10/08/21 09:23pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So the 100 amp hour battery is actually 120 ampere hours with the bottom 20 amp hours Forbidden Planet? What is making my eyebrows rise?

Tom_M

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Posted: 10/09/21 04:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

So the 100 amp hour battery is actually 120 ampere hours with the bottom 20 amp hours Forbidden Planet? What is making my eyebrows rise?
This is true for what is considered a "drop-in" battery which has a built-in BMS. Without a BMS the battery would be quickly destroyed.


Tom
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jaycocreek

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Posted: 10/09/21 05:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The Chins 100ah battery is actually 104ah for $359..

Chins $359 100ah battery tear down..

StirCrazy

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Posted: 10/11/21 06:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

What is the USUABLE amp hours of a "100 amp hour" lithium battery?
Or is it hypothetical like solar panel wattage as measured on the planet Mercury?
Sweet spot is up to 80% for 4000 to 6000 cycles.
100% maybe 3000 cycles or almost 10 years for daily cycling.
This rating drops you to 80% capacity. Possibly still very usable.

For many of us it could prove to be the last battery we buy.


depends on the brnd, some advertise 5000 @ 100% dept of discharge and up to 8000 or more if you stay in that 80% so to me its 3-5000 depending on the battery at 100% and if you use less you get bonus rounds. but your tight even if you max out on the 100% thats just the figure to get to 80 to 90% capacity and then you can go a lot linger like that.

Steve


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MEXICOWANDERER

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Posted: 10/11/21 09:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Life cycle I understand well.

But a lithium battery contains "x" number of amp hours. Let's use the 20 hour rate...

But a certain percentage of those amp hours are "no touchee" because any further drawdown would permanently damage the battery.

The internal BMS prevents unintentional drawdown past the safety minimum.

Now for my ongoing question...

Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?

road-runner

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Posted: 10/11/21 09:52am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

YES: The advertised amp hours do include the no-touchee amp hours. For maximum charge cycles, there are recommendations to not touch the top 10% either, leaving 70% usable. Compared to 50% recommended for lead acid batteries. Lots of discussion about this on solar energy forums.


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jaycocreek

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Posted: 10/11/21 10:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If watch that Chin's $359 video I posted the link to,It shows Will drawing down the 100ah Chins battery to zero and 104 amp hours through his tester..He also did one on the Zoom battery with the very same results..104 amp hours to zero/dead dark 30......LOL

time2roll

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Posted: 10/11/21 10:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?
The rating is the energy that you can actually pull from the battery.

This is the same as people go round and round about propane cylinders and the 80% fill cut-off.

Now having said that, there are sellers in CN selling batteries that do not produce the rated power. Best to buy from a reputable and verified supplier.

BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 10/11/21 11:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:

Yes or no

Do the advertised amp hour claims for these batteries include or exclude mo-Touchee amp hours?
The rating is the energy that you can actually pull from the battery.

This is the same as people go round and round about propane cylinders and the 80% fill cut-off.

Now having said that, there are sellers in CN selling batteries that do not produce the rated power. Best to buy from a reputable and verified supplier.


Last go-round on all this, it came out that "energy" and "power" wording had to watched like a hawk. eg, when you get down to 50% AH you are more than half way down in energy remaining.

There was some jiggery-pokery about how they get the AH rating. Instead of using a 5a draw for 20 hrs to get 100AH, some said they draw 100a for 1 hr and then do some kind of fudging between watt hr and AH curves to get a range.

Some said 120 vs 100 depended on the type of cell where prismatic cells needed the cushion at the low SOC.

Most said they didn't care about the exact amounts for how they camp and they get what they want from their LFPs using ball park figures--common sense!

Mex will get a bad headache if he wants to "go there" . Lie down till the urge to figure out LFPs goes away!


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