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 > Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas

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Bruce Brown

Northern NY

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Posted: 09/20/21 08:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Mike - YOU are the one who was delivering WRONG information.

Time to Man Up and admit YOUR mistake.


There are 24 hours in every day - it all depends on how you choose to use them.
Bruce & Jill Brown
2008 Kountry Star Pusher 3910


pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 09/20/21 10:53pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The first generator to be equipped with an inverter circuit was Honda's EX300, released in 1987. In order to stabilize frequency and improve generation efficiency, the EX300 employed a “3-phase multi-pole high-speed generation system,” which spun a rotor at high speeds to generate a 3-phase alternating current.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Idle-Up

Ga

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Posted: 09/21/21 07:20am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference.

Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel.

Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released.

I would additionally like to personally thank the moderators for re-opening the thread!

[image]

* This post was edited 09/21/21 07:29am by Idle-Up *

Reisender

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Posted: 09/21/21 07:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Idle-Up wrote:

Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference.

Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel.

Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released.


Glad you got to the bottom of it mike. Hopefully the new and improved version will also reduce the amount of invertir boards that owners are going thru.

Cheers and stay safe on the road.

Shot-N-Az

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Posted: 09/21/21 08:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I’m chuckling at this latest reply. Just can’t admit there was inaccurate information relayed. I have lost a lot of respect for you, Mike. Happy trails.

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Ga

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Posted: 09/21/21 09:40am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Idle-Up wrote:

Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference.

Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel.

Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released.


Glad you got to the bottom of it mike. Hopefully the new and improved version will also reduce the amount of invertir boards that owners are going thru.

Cheers and stay safe on the road.


Reisender thanks for the reply - Regarding the many board failures in Onan’s, the most common cause for this occurs when the generator is using to the same battery set as the main engine.

When the owner can’t start the RV’s engine because of a depleted battery, he then starts the generator. The problem occurs as he attempts to start the engine “while the generator is running”, the extreme momentary high amperage load of the starter windings overloads the Onan’s 12/120 volt circuitry, causing the control module to fail.

Regretfully, this is a short coming of the Onan system since it’s not uncommon for an owner to have a depleted chassis battery from all the processors running when the engine is off then start the generator to power and start the main engine.

Regards - Mike

Bruce Brown

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Posted: 09/21/21 11:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So Mike, take a look at this and ask yourself how this looks...

Your posts;

9/17/21 - This has been confirmed by Cummins Onan.
9/19/21 - Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators.
9/21/21 - Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs.

So what's the truth here? If you didn't speak to Bill until 9/21, what happened on the other 2 times???

Next item;

9/18/21 - I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed.

9/19/21 - I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz.

9/20/21 – Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load,

9/20/21 - The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied.

9/21/21 - Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol…

Seeing as you told all these people they didn't know what they were talking about - and actually doubled down on it, and not very politely either, don't you think this would have been a good time to hand out a few apologies? It's ok to make a mistake - we all do that - the trouble is when you proclaim to be the expert and, in this case, simply had no idea what you were talking about, then totally disregarded the information from those who actually did.

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Ga

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Posted: 09/21/21 06:15pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bruce Brown wrote:

So Mike, take a look at this and ask yourself how this looks...

Your posts;

9/17/21 - This has been confirmed by Cummins Onan.
9/19/21 - Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators.
9/21/21 - Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs.

So what's the truth here? If you didn't speak to Bill until 9/21, what happened on the other 2 times???

Next item;

9/18/21 - I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed.

9/19/21 - I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz.

9/20/21 – Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load,

9/20/21 - The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied.

9/21/21 - Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol…

Seeing as you told all these people they didn't know what they were talking about - and actually doubled down on it, and not very politely either, don't you think this would have been a good time to hand out a few apologies? It's ok to make a mistake - we all do that - the trouble is when you proclaim to be the expert and, in this case, simply had no idea what you were talking about, then totally disregarded the information from those who actually did.


Bruce thanks for the reply - As I mentioned numerous times, I immediately noticed a contrast difference between the old and newer gen units with a revised Protocol within minutes when I first started the generator at North Trail.

It's also important that you understand - I have spoken over a dozen Cummins Onan tech's since I bought my coach last year, most all confirmed there were operational differences in the newer gen sets at the same period the newly released 2500i and 2800i inverter based generators were released.

In my last post I clearly stated that I just spoke to Mr. Stubbs yesterday evening for his accurate assessment on the newer generators where he confirmed there were major operational differences.

Regretfully, since you don’t own one of these newer generators, so you’re speaking “off the cuff” without any real "User" experience. In retrospect, I had both my old coach (standard set) and new coach (new protocol) in my garage for 3 months parked side by side for comparison of the generators. Therefore, I speak from facts, I didn’t just wake up one morning and dream this thing up!

Best Regards - Mike

* This post was edited 09/21/21 06:56pm by Idle-Up *

Bruce Brown

Northern NY

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Posted: 09/21/21 07:13pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Just can't admit you were wrong, can you - even when all your quotes were highlighted.

Yes, the generators have been updated.

More importantly, the older models were indeed inverter type generators - which you continued to insist wasn't true and you continue to belittle those who point that out. Your last post is just another example.

Yes, my Onan generator IS an inverter type generator. Our old Generac (in our '03) was not. Yes, I do know the difference.

BTW, we also ran an inverter generator in our off the grid camp.

Seriously, put the shovel down, you cannot dig your way out of the hole you're in.

Shot-N-Az

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Posted: 09/22/21 05:51am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bruce Brown wrote:

Just can't admit you were wrong, can you - even when all your quotes were highlighted.



It’s an affliction called narcissism. I’ve always wondered why he puts his name in every thread title. Now we know.

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