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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 09/29/21 09:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

@FWC.
Fair enough. I made some assumptions. Mostly because I figured what you were saying had at least “some” remote relevance to life ON earth which could somehow be at least loosely related to batteries in a camper….
So, sounds like a cool job, yet wholly unrelated to average or even extreme camper use.
Your replies are akin to the many other overtly literal responses and interpretations that somehow plague any sense of practical reason or application, on this forum…..

And exactly to my previous point, that just because it “can” be done, doesn’t mean it’s the right solution for the application.


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FWC

The Wilderness

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Posted: 09/29/21 02:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Again, this is all a distraction from the point I was actually making.

The point in the very unlikely circumstance that you need to use your LiFePO4 camper battery in temperatures below -20C, the battery will work just fine, you will be able to fire up the furnace or battery heater and warm up the camper. At that point you can charge your battery, fill your water tank, and do what every you need to do.

Every time there is a discussion of LiFePO4 batteries, there are always a few who say that they are no good if you camp in cold weather (some are now even claiming 'cool weather'). My experience is exactly the opposite, they have worked just fine for me in cold weather. Yes there are limitations on charging, but these are generally easy to overcome, and are not nearly as restrictive as the limitations on your water system.

mbloof

Beaverton, OR

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Posted: 09/30/21 05:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

Again, this is all a distraction from the point I was actually making.

The point in the very unlikely circumstance that you need to use your LiFePO4 camper battery in temperatures below -20C, the battery will work just fine, you will be able to fire up the furnace or battery heater and warm up the camper. At that point you can charge your battery, fill your water tank, and do what every you need to do.

Every time there is a discussion of LiFePO4 batteries, there are always a few who say that they are no good if you camp in cold weather (some are now even claiming 'cool weather'). My experience is exactly the opposite, they have worked just fine for me in cold weather. Yes there are limitations on charging, but these are generally easy to overcome, and are not nearly as restrictive as the limitations on your water system.


While it has always appeared that rv.net has more then its share of trolls and internet experts who seemingly always want to argue why something won't work, the reality for me is that for where I live and camp I'd rarely if ever run into temperatures that make charging my LiFePO4 a issue.

Obviously for others their MMV.



- Mark0.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 09/30/21 08:01am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FWC wrote:

Again, this is all a distraction from the point I was actually making.

The point in the very unlikely circumstance that you need to use your LiFePO4 camper battery in temperatures below -20C, the battery will work just fine, you will be able to fire up the furnace or battery heater and warm up the camper. At that point you can charge your battery, fill your water tank, and do what every you need to do.

Every time there is a discussion of LiFePO4 batteries, there are always a few who say that they are no good if you camp in cold weather (some are now even claiming 'cool weather'). My experience is exactly the opposite, they have worked just fine for me in cold weather. Yes there are limitations on charging, but these are generally easy to overcome, and are not nearly as restrictive as the limitations on your water system.


Ohmygosh, you’re actually correct. And you actually explained your position succinctly and completely compared to the passive aggressive, vague references when you were apparently trying to prove your point, and it is essentially what I was saying as well.
One needs to take more care and treat life’s differently to use in cold weather.

So even though pianotuna is sort of obsessed with batteries , he’s still correct, imo, in that most people throw their batteries in the battery compartment and that’s it and they would be real surprised when their batteries don’t charge.
One needs to make accommodations if you will for life’s.

Or to put it another way, they still don’t charge in the cold. Doesn’t matter if it’s -100 if you keep them warm. Then they’re not in the cold.

Thank you for finally using your words!

ticki2

NH

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Posted: 09/30/21 08:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mbloof wrote:

FWC wrote:

Again, this is all a distraction from the point I was actually making.

The point in the very unlikely circumstance that you need to use your LiFePO4 camper battery in temperatures below -20C, the battery will work just fine, you will be able to fire up the furnace or battery heater and warm up the camper. At that point you can charge your battery, fill your water tank, and do what every you need to do.

Every time there is a discussion of LiFePO4 batteries, there are always a few who say that they are no good if you camp in cold weather (some are now even claiming 'cool weather'). My experience is exactly the opposite, they have worked just fine for me in cold weather. Yes there are limitations on charging, but these are generally easy to overcome, and are not nearly as restrictive as the limitations on your water system.


While it has always appeared that rv.net has more then its share of trolls and internet experts who seemingly always want to argue why something won't work, the reality for me is that for where I live and camp I'd rarely if ever run into temperatures that make charging my LiFePO4 a issue.

Obviously for others their MMV.



- Mark0.


Are you guys trying to inject some reasoning into this subject ? Shame on you .


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adamis

Northern California

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Posted: 09/30/21 08:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I don't understand these arguments at all...

If you have a LiFePo4 battery and camp in extreme cold weather, move the battery to inside the camper. Problem solved... Unless you are sleeping with a camper below -20 deg, the battery will be plenty warm for it's expected use.

The rest of these arguments are just kind of pointless. Nobody is sleeping with a camper that cold so why are you expecting your battery to encounter that temp? Sure, maybe if you were loading your camper for first use and going out on a trip might the camper be that cold but be a little creative and figure out how to heat up the camper before you take off and to keep it warm as you travel. Both things that can be done without much effort.

Problem solved....


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StirCrazy

Kamloops, BC, Canada

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Posted: 09/30/21 11:12am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:


Or to put it another way, they still don’t charge in the cold. Doesn’t matter if it’s -100 if you keep them warm. Then they’re not in the cold.

Thank you for finally using your words!


I hate it when people post statments like they dont charge in the cold. if you are camping and using your batteries you have obviously made it so the battery is kept warm, no matter what the weather is like outside. so they will act just like a normal battery and you can forget about them, which people seam to forget. the beauty about LiFePo4 is they are a zero off gass any position battery so you can tuck them anywhere. and if you make your own you can make them a wide viriaty of shape with out hurting preformance. this enables you to put them in places you couldnt put a normal battery.

I think part of the issue has been becuse they do have limit of cold charging, it was always asumed they have a hrd limit on cold dischare and if that was the case then yes Pianotuna would be right for extreem cold camping SIO2 were better, even though they are more expensive now.. but now that we have discovered that they will dischardw at much lower temps, the playing field has shifted back in favor of the LiFePO4. in fact at -30 they have less of a capacity restriction than SIO2 (60% capacity for SIO2 &0% capacity for LiFePO4. granted this will only be an issue for thr LFP when first starting a heating unit to warm up the batteries then they will be back at 100% capacity, the SIO2 sitting outside will still only have 60% capacity)

so as long as you can mount the LFP batteries where they will be kept warm for charging purposes, then at a lot less weight, and much smaller for the same usable AH, and cheeper. its a no brainer

Steve


2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 09/30/21 11:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lol saying they charge in the cold is like saying I don’t wear a coat when it’s 20 below……if I’m not outside.

pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 09/30/21 04:48pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

adamis wrote:

I don't understand these arguments at all...

If you have a LiFePo4 battery and camp in extreme cold weather, move the battery to inside the camper. Problem solved...


Take it out of storage at -37 and let me know how that works for you.

It is fine if one were full time.

I'm still waiting for FWC to describe the power system he uses.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, soon to have SiO2 batteries, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Bradymydog

Western MA

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Posted: 10/01/21 04:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

adamis wrote:

I don't understand these arguments at all...

If you have a LiFePo4 battery and camp in extreme cold weather, move the battery to inside the camper. Problem solved...


Take it out of storage at -37 and let me know how that works for you.

It is fine if one were full time.

I'm still waiting for FWC to describe the power system he uses.


If I were to take mine out of storage at -37, assuming the batteries had some % of charge remaining, I would:

1. Shut off/disconnect any charging devices - solar, shore power, DC-DC charger, no genny running.

2. Start the furnace. My 2 BB batteries are inside the conditioned space and have a heat duct discharge adjacent to the batteries. Let the furnace run for 24 hrs. while monitoring the battery temp via my Victron BM712 and an external digital thermostat next to the batts. My external digital thermo switch, serves a double duty as my Victron DC/DC charger generates considerable heat, so I installed 2 small 4" fans which are set to come on at 30C. My BB batts do not have built in heaters which are available.

3. Once I'm confident the internal battery temp is above 32F/0C, I'd start charging them.

Note: If attempting to charge cold batteries, according Tony discussions with BB, the BB internal battery monitor will disconnect at 25F to prevent damage to the batteries. To reset the internal BM, just disconnect/reconnect the negative battery cable.

On a side note, the coldest I've ever experienced was during an extended business trip to Prince Albert, SK. I'm not sure I'd personally want to camp in that weather but with adequate preparation, it should be possible.

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