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Open Roads Forum  >  General RVing Issues

 > Needless kaos and carnage on the Beeline highway...

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way2roll

Wilmington NC

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Posted: 10/06/21 02:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RetiredRealtorRick wrote:

way2roll wrote:

Chaos? Were they driving or pulling RV's? Trying to understand the correlation to the forum.


This is not a real question......right?.....can't be serious......can it?

Somebody introduce this guy to Captain Obvious.....PLEASE!


LOL!


2020 F350 STX 6.7L Turbo Diesel
2020 FR Cedar Creek Silverback 29rw

naturist

Lynchburg, VA

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Posted: 10/06/21 04:14pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My daughter, raised here on the wet side of the country, but now living in LA, reports that there are two kinds of drivers in the desert southwest: ones that are terrified of damp roadways and those who can't believe a little water makes any difference. The latter clog things up having wrecks, the former clog things up being too frightened to move at all.

On a serious note, I too hope the wrecks the OP reported killed no one, and all learned something.

Driving back from Richmond in the rain this afternoon, I, too, came upon a wreck. 3/4 ton flatbed towing an enclosed utility trailer on their sides in the median. Judging by the wreck and the marks on the pavement/divots in the grass, the trailer was improperly loaded and the driver didn't know what to do about sway.

Let these reports be a lesson to us all: pay attention, drive carefully, make sure the wheels stay on the bottom, and firmly planted on the roadway.





DrewE

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Posted: 10/06/21 06:02pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Most law enforcement, etc, no longer use the word "accident". Instead they use "crash". Because in 95 percent or more of incidents it was not an accident.

If any traffic law was broken, is it not an accident? If it was caused by someone else, is it not an accident because you can't be sure they didn't do it on purpose?

In some legal contexts, "accident" has the implication that nobody is at fault or bears legal responsibility. If a bolt of lightning struck a vehicle and destroyed it, that would presumably be considered an accident; but if someone ran a red light and destroyed the vehicle, that would not be an accident in such contexts.

In general everyday use, however, the word accident doesn't carry this additional connotation; it merely means something that was not done intentionally. Indeed, it seems to me that there's most often a bit of an implication that an accident could have been avoided with care or foresight. A toddler peeing his or her pants has an accident. Bob Ross putting a brush stroke in not quite the right place has a happy little accident. A speeding car careening off the road is in an accident, assuming the driver wasn't actually setting out to commit suicide or attempt a dangerous bit of stunt driving.

I personally don't very much appreciate people attempting to redefine the common, everyday meaning of words to match technical legal definitions. I'll continue to call entirely preventable but unintended misfortunes accidents.





toedtoes

California

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Posted: 10/06/21 07:28pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Most law enforcement, etc, no longer use the word "accident". Instead they use "crash". Because in 95 percent or more of incidents it was not an accident.

I am always amazed at how some people drive.


Because you're around alot of LEO's and "crashes?" Lol
Maybe in your infinite toes, you can tell us exactly what the differentiator is between an "accident" and a "crash." If any traffic law was broken, is it not an accident? If it was caused by someone else, is it not an accident because you can't be sure they didn't do it on purpose?
Nevermind, no one actually cares....
But we should start a thread about all the people who drive too slow, too. They cause accidents, I mean crashes, sometimes too.


Why are you taking such offense at my comments. Geez.

And yes, I worked most of my career with law enforcement.

They stopped using the word "accident" because it implied there was no fault - and in most cases someone was at fault.

NHTSA started it and law enforcement and others have followed it.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/newsroom/crash-not-accident

So get off your high horse and grow up.


1975 American Clipper RV with Dodge 360 (photo in profile)
1998 American Clipper Fold n Roll Folding Trailer
Both born in Morgan Hill, CA to Irv Perch (Daddy of the Aristocrat trailers)

toedtoes

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Posted: 10/06/21 07:34pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

DrewE wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Most law enforcement, etc, no longer use the word "accident". Instead they use "crash". Because in 95 percent or more of incidents it was not an accident.

If any traffic law was broken, is it not an accident? If it was caused by someone else, is it not an accident because you can't be sure they didn't do it on purpose?

In some legal contexts, "accident" has the implication that nobody is at fault or bears legal responsibility. If a bolt of lightning struck a vehicle and destroyed it, that would presumably be considered an accident; but if someone ran a red light and destroyed the vehicle, that would not be an accident in such contexts.

In general everyday use, however, the word accident doesn't carry this additional connotation; it merely means something that was not done intentionally. Indeed, it seems to me that there's most often a bit of an implication that an accident could have been avoided with care or foresight. A toddler peeing his or her pants has an accident. Bob Ross putting a brush stroke in not quite the right place has a happy little accident. A speeding car careening off the road is in an accident, assuming the driver wasn't actually setting out to commit suicide or attempt a dangerous bit of stunt driving.

I personally don't very much appreciate people attempting to redefine the common, everyday meaning of words to match technical legal definitions. I'll continue to call entirely preventable but unintended misfortunes accidents.


The reason for the change of wording is that it was felt that using "accident" made it sound like know one could have done anything to prevent it.

In the OP's post, the driver of the vehicle was driving at an unsafe speed for the road and conditions - calling that an accident made it seem like the driver had no role and so it was decided to call it a crash. A crash may be an accident or it may be negligence or worse.

noteven

Turtle Island

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Posted: 10/06/21 08:47pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

on edit - erased post dint notice thread is now about "crash" vs "accident"

* This post was edited 10/07/21 05:17am by noteven *

Unobtanium

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Posted: 10/07/21 03:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

Most law enforcement, etc, no longer use the word "accident". Instead they use "crash". Because in 95 percent or more of incidents it was not an accident.

I am always amazed at how some people drive.


Because you're around alot of LEO's and "crashes?" Lol
Maybe in your infinite toes, you can tell us exactly what the differentiator is between an "accident" and a "crash." If any traffic law was broken, is it not an accident? If it was caused by someone else, is it not an accident because you can't be sure they didn't do it on purpose?
Nevermind, no one actually cares....
But we should start a thread about all the people who drive too slow, too. They cause accidents, I mean crashes, sometimes too.


Why are you taking such offense at my comments. Geez.

And yes, I worked most of my career with law enforcement.

They stopped using the word "accident" because it implied there was no fault - and in most cases someone was at fault.

NHTSA started it and law enforcement and others have followed it.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/newsroom/crash-not-accident

So get off your high horse and grow up.




You like potato and I like potahto
You like tomato and I like tomahto
Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto.
Let's call the whole thing off

LOL.


"Nevermind, no one actually cares".....Exactly!

hypoxia

Arizona

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Posted: 10/07/21 07:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Desert Captain wrote:

Highway 87 aka the Beeline Highway runs north from Mesa {just east of Phoenix} north 75 miles to and through Payson continuing on to provide a good route for the RV crowd to the I-40 corridor {Flagstaff, Winslow and Holbrook}. From Mesa it is good 4 lane {with wide paved shoulders} of mostly divided highway. It does however have a lot of steep climbs {6 to 7 percent} as it winds up through the mountains.

The speeds on that road have been surprising. I'm not on it that often but go in and out of Arizona on it with my RV. When the police holed up last year we were passed by lots of high speed traffic, probably 90 & 100 MPH. The police are back but spread thin and speeds seemed slightly lower.

We travel the US through lots of mountains & I consider that road from the Mogillion Rim through Payson to Mesa to be one of the best workouts for the driver and the RV. Lots of climbs in high temperatures to test your cooling system and patience and lots of descents to use the Jake Brake, exhaust brake and learn to keep the service brakes cool.

We like the Payson Airport (KPAN) Crosswinds Restaurant but we don't go there by road.


Jim

2007 Monaco Signature Noble III ISX 600HP

bgum

South Louisiana

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Posted: 10/07/21 08:04am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I am not informed as to the volume of traffic on this road but it appears to have a lot of serious incidents.

Desert Captain

Payson

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Posted: 10/07/21 09:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

OP here...

The Beeline gets an incredible volume of traffic especially on Friday's as folks from the Phoenix area flood it to access the Mogollon Rim, White mountains as well as Pine, Strawberry, Happy Jack and on to Sedona and Flagstaff. Conversely Sundays see same same volume of traffic only southbound.

On Sunday afternoons it is fairly common to see westbound 260 backed up for miles where it intersects the Beeline in the center of Payson. A mile east of the Beeline on the 260 is a Circle K gas station with a double dump station and from October through May it is the first and only dump station you encounter between Show Low and Payson. {the two up on the Rim shut down with the seasonal close of the campgrounds on October first above 6,000'}. Dozens of RV's are lined up awaiting their turn from Sunday morning throughout the day with the wait often being an hour or more. If I need to dump I head over on Tuesday morning,{ it is half a mile from our house} and usually find it deserted. [emoticon]

The point being while the Beeline is a convenient get you where you want to be highway choose you moments wisely. We get a lot of very nasty weather, it was closed from Mesa to Winslow last January for 4 days when most of the Beeline was inundated with heavy wet snow {we had 2.5'+ here in Payson}. It is definitely NOT a road you want to be on when the precipitation turns white. The robust monsoon {that we were blessed with this summer} also brings some serious challenges with torrential rain and extreme high winds that can really impact the winding, twisty Beeline as it climbs and drops precipitously.

Here is a shot taken of our C lass C in the driveway on January 26th.
Keep in mind we are just one mile east of the Beeline and half a mile south of the 260 at 5,000':

[image]

[emoticon]





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