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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > Newsom signs bill to ban the sell of gas powered generators

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rexlion

Broken Arrow OK

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Posted: 10/10/21 01:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I happen to like my battery-powered weed whacker/edge trimmer and my Toro battery-powered self-propelled mower. I bought them because they're quieter and because they don't put out fumes that make my nose run and sneeze. Also I don't have to change the oil in this mower, ever. Based on my current electricity cost, I figure I'm saving about $80/year versus gasoline. I like my corded electric leaf blower, too, for the rare occasions when I need one; no worries about a clogged carb after it sits for 10 months.

That said, I highly value the ability and right to make my own choice based on all the info and variables. I'd rather not have some small group of people mandate my choice and take the decision away from me. Perhaps more people should read Henry David Thoreau's Civil Disobedience.

Since California will have this law, perhaps generator rental places will spring up just across the state line. A new business model, perhaps? Campers can pick up their genny on the way out to their camping destination, and drop it off on the way home, for $50/day plus a hefty deposit. [emoticon] Come to think of it, if sales but not rentals are banned within the state, it would be easy enough for the usual shops in CA to "rent" a genny for a deposit sum equal to the normal for-sale price, with the understanding that if the renter never returned the unit, [emoticon] [emoticon] nothing will happen. [emoticon]

* This post was edited 10/10/21 01:42pm by rexlion *


Mike G.
Liberty is meaningless where the right to utter one's thoughts and opinions has ceased to exist. That, of all rights, is the dread of tyrants. --Frederick Douglass
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mobeewan

Hampton, Va

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Posted: 10/10/21 02:49pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Over the past few years, I have been purchasing more battery powered hand tools as a convenience for not having cords to trip over and fight. I have also been purchasing outdoor tools that are battery-powered for doing work in the yard as a convenience. These outdoor tools include 2 lawn mowers (I had to upgrade), a chainsaw, a leaf blower and a weed trimmer with multiple attachments for it, some of which I already had for my gas powered weed trimmer.

The outdoor tools have served me for what I have needed and as I said they are a convenience, because I don't have to mix oil and gasoline for some of those tools and have three different gas cans for three different oil mixes that are required for some of those gas powered tools that I own. As long as I keep the batteries charged they are ready to go when I need to use them and I always have the gas powered tools available if I need to use them.

It it good to live in a part of the country where I don't have to worry about brownouts or rolling blackouts and can use any tool I want whether it be gasoline or battery-powered. However, I can't understand why a governor in the state with the largest population of citizens, would ban equipment that would have to force people to rely even more on a failing electrical grid, with brown outs and rolling blackouts. The same power grid that actually causes forest fires burning tens of thousands of acres (maybe even hundreds of thousands of acres) of land that the state and federal government want to protect.

toedtoes

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Posted: 10/10/21 02:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

...
It does not say "gas powered" - the regulation is based on the actual emissions. According to the bill, these small off road engines produce more emissions in one hour than a non-electric/hybrid vehicle produces over 1,100 miles of drive time (or 1.47 hours driving at 75 mph). If manufacturers reduce those emissions in their products significantly, then that can extend the timeline.

It's amazing how many folks get their panties in a twist over something they've never bothered to actually read.


LOL, if they're not talking about gas powered engines, then pray tell what?

If one reads the legislative analysis, one will discover gas powered engines is exactly what they are targeting.

According to the Author
Today, operating the best-selling gas-powered commercial leaf blower for one hour emits air pollutants comparable to driving a 2017 Toyota Camry from Los Angeles to Denver. Smog-forming emissions from small engines will surpass those from passenger vehicles this year. We must look beyond transportation if we are to achieve the emissions reductions needed to fight climate change and improve air quality and health in our communities.

Arguments in Support
Supporters state: There are zero-emission equivalents to all SORE that are regulated by ARB, generally electric alternatives that run on batteries or plug into an outlet. Many users, including over half of household users, have already begun the transition to zero-emission equipment…AB 1346 recognizes that California must look beyond gas powered vehicles to achieve the emissions reductions needed to meet our state's environmental goals, fight climate change, and improve health in our communities by reducing air pollution.


https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billAnalysisClient.xhtml


Above someone asked if they were targeting "gasoline" only or all "gas powered". The answer is that they are targeting ANY high emissions source. That means gasoline, but isn't limited to that.


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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 10/10/21 03:12pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:

Wanna be a "trillionaire"? Then invent a battery operated generator.

Especially one that functions during power outages.

Let's go Brandon!


Solar, Wind and Water all do that. Solar is coming down in cost. Wind is seeing some interesting new designs.. Not following water much as you need to be near falling water to use it (Any fairly swift stream does not need to be a BIG fall like Niagara)

0


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2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
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Fisherman

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Posted: 10/10/21 04:36pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Why don't they include those stinking motorcycles.
Motorcycles were indeed more fuel-efficient than cars and emitted less of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, but they emitted far more smog-forming hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, as well as the toxic air pollutant carbon monoxide. For the most recent model year vehicles tested -- from the '00s -- the motorcycle used 28% less fuel than the comparable decade car and emitted 30% fewer carbon dioxide emissions, but it emitted 416% more hydrocarbons, 3,220% more oxides of nitrogen and 8,065% more carbon monoxide.

fj12ryder

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Posted: 10/10/21 06:17pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Fisherman wrote:

Why don't they include those stinking motorcycles.
Motorcycles were indeed more fuel-efficient than cars and emitted less of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, but they emitted far more smog-forming hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen, as well as the toxic air pollutant carbon monoxide. For the most recent model year vehicles tested -- from the '00s -- the motorcycle used 28% less fuel than the comparable decade car and emitted 30% fewer carbon dioxide emissions, but it emitted 416% more hydrocarbons, 3,220% more oxides of nitrogen and 8,065% more carbon monoxide.
And they they can go after the boat motors. No reason those little boats need motors anyway. They're fourstroke now, but doubt if they have much smog controls.


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atreis

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Posted: 10/10/21 06:30pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

toedtoes wrote:

43018.11. (a) (1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later.
(2) In determining technological feasibility pursuant to paragraph (1), the state board shall consider all of the following:
(A) Emissions from small off-road engines in the state.
(B) Expected timelines for zero-emission small off-road equipment development.
(C) Increased demand for electricity from added charging requirements for more zero-emission small off-road equipment.
(D) Use cases of both commercial and residential lawn and garden users.
(E) Expected availability of zero-emission generators and emergency response equipment.
(b) Consistent with the regulations adopted pursuant to this section and relevant state law, the state board shall identify, and, to the extent feasible, make available, funding for commercial rebates or similar incentive funding as part of any updates to existing, applicable funding program guidelines for districts to implement to support the transition to zero-emission small off-road equipment operations.


Bold emphasis mine. The earliest this will be effective is 2024. And there are built in exemptions for emergency response equipment. In addition, it is all based on whether zero-emission options are available. What this type of legislation does is 1) encourage companies to develop zero emission options and 2) convert the low hanging fruit (ie, more people will buy electric lawn movers and leaf blowers instead of "dirty" ones.

It does not say "gas powered" - the regulation is based on the actual emissions. According to the bill, these small off road engines produce more emissions in one hour than a non-electric/hybrid vehicle produces over 1,100 miles of drive time (or 1.47 hours driving at 75 mph). If manufacturers reduce those emissions in their products significantly, then that can extend the timeline.

It's amazing how many folks get their panties in a twist over something they've never bothered to actually read.


Thank you for posting the actual text. Hopefully more states will do this and provide even more incentive for development of zero-emission options.


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wapiticountry

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Posted: 10/11/21 09:25am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

atreis wrote:

toedtoes wrote:

43018.11. (a) (1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later.
(2) In determining technological feasibility pursuant to paragraph (1), the state board shall consider all of the following:
(A) Emissions from small off-road engines in the state.
(B) Expected timelines for zero-emission small off-road equipment development.
(C) Increased demand for electricity from added charging requirements for more zero-emission small off-road equipment.
(D) Use cases of both commercial and residential lawn and garden users.
(E) Expected availability of zero-emission generators and emergency response equipment.
(b) Consistent with the regulations adopted pursuant to this section and relevant state law, the state board shall identify, and, to the extent feasible, make available, funding for commercial rebates or similar incentive funding as part of any updates to existing, applicable funding program guidelines for districts to implement to support the transition to zero-emission small off-road equipment operations.


Bold emphasis mine. The earliest this will be effective is 2024. And there are built in exemptions for emergency response equipment. In addition, it is all based on whether zero-emission options are available. What this type of legislation does is 1) encourage companies to develop zero emission options and 2) convert the low hanging fruit (ie, more people will buy electric lawn movers and leaf blowers instead of "dirty" ones.

It does not say "gas powered" - the regulation is based on the actual emissions. According to the bill, these small off road engines produce more emissions in one hour than a non-electric/hybrid vehicle produces over 1,100 miles of drive time (or 1.47 hours driving at 75 mph). If manufacturers reduce those emissions in their products significantly, then that can extend the timeline.

It's amazing how many folks get their panties in a twist over something they've never bothered to actually read.


Thank you for posting the actual text. Hopefully more states will do this and provide even more incentive for development of zero-emission options.
And even better, all these wonder machines will be produced in third world countries like China that are actually ramping up coal fueled electrical generation to meet the increased demand from the manufacturing industry. China is building 47 new coal fired power plants currently and estimates are they will construct up to several hundred more. Nothing happens in a vacuum. (multiple sources including Time.com and CNBC).

Timmo!

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Posted: 10/11/21 09:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The outrage should be against lawmakers who create laws mandating the use of a product (zero emission generator) that does not exist (we lack the technology).

If one searches the following phrase "zero emission generator" online, these are the types of generators listed:

Battery packs
Hydrogen fueled, sparked ignition
Natural gas

If it was economically and technically feasible, then wouldn't Honda be all over this?

toedtoes

California

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Posted: 10/11/21 10:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:

The outrage should be against lawmakers who create laws mandating the use of a product (zero emission generator) that does not exist (we lack the technology).

If one searches the following phrase "zero emission generator" online, these are the types of generators listed:

Battery packs
Hydrogen fueled, sparked ignition
Natural gas

If it was economically and technically feasible, then wouldn't Honda be all over this?


It's not mandated until the technology exists. The bill is a way to encourage companies to create the technology.

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