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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire  >  General Topics

 > Can't imagine a world without internal combustion engines

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way2roll

Wilmington NC

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Posted: 11/18/21 07:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I still love ICE's and my son who is 18 loves them also and has no appetite for an EV. He just bought a historic car and my new favorite thing is for us to spend hours working on it together. I don't see that father-son bonding on an EV. Although I do think the majority of the younger generation is probably more on board with EV's. I appreciate their merit, heck even supercars are way outperforming previous supercars by going EV. The arms race for the fastest supercar is on and it's almost all EV. They are certainly more efficient at producing power. That said, EV's are hardly clean. While emissions may be less, the materials needed to manufacture them are highly caustic, ecologically damaging, the power needed to produce them and run them still has to come from somewhere and there is yet to be a clear thought out plan on what to do with millions of power cells once they die. I am aware they are working on the problem though. Better? sure. Imagine a car where the only maintenance is washer fluid and a new set of tires every few years. But EV's trade a lot of problems from ICE's with different problems and a little more kicking the can down the road. But I hope in the future there will still be motorheads and car shows, vintage and exotic cars, loud, chromed up, hobbled together, shade-tree and creative ways to produce good old fashioned horsepower. I mean there is nothing like jamming a tennis ball into an alternator tensioner when the bolt breaks or tin foil to patch a hole in a carb diaphragm to keep a road trip going. The ability to be creative to fix and enhance a machine is priceless. ICE cars are emotional romantic things. Who hasn't personalized their car? The ability to take my 71 Torino and jack it up, add slicks, air intakes, cams, or swap the engine in my triumph spitfire for something that actually produces power. The ability to take any car and make it totally unique and personal is so rewarding. I am sure there will be bolt on bits to make EV's look cooler, but to put blood sweat and tears into a machine to make it yours is one of the bests things I know. The BEST thing in the world is to take an issue rendering a car immobile and get it running again. Smiles for days. I digress.

On edit: what will happen to a complete industry of car mechanics? I don't see the job creation of EV cars eclipsing the many jobs lost when the dealerships won't have work for mechanics to do. Sure it will be a while before that happens, but real mechanics will eventually become a thing of the past. Jobs lost replaced by efficiency. Granted it happens in all forms of industry evolution.

* This post was edited 11/18/21 07:14am by way2roll *


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BCSnob

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Posted: 11/18/21 07:09am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

While I can see a future with a more equal mix of EVs and ICEs; I don’t see ICEs being totally replaced in my lifetime.

I don’t plan on giving up my 1966 Mustang GT 2+2.

atreis

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Posted: 11/18/21 07:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

[image]
US-China Business Council

The crops, oil, and gas didn’t surprise me; the semiconductors and components did based upon all the press about being reliant upon China for chips giving the impression they don’t need us.


Not really surprising. Most CPUs (Intel in PCs and servers, Qualcomm in smartphones, and A-series processors in Apple and some other products), and GPUs (graphical chips from NVidia and AMD) are mostly made in the US. In terms of dollar value, those are high value items. Most memory chips are made in Korea and Taiwan. The OTHER chips in PCs and phones for things like sound (Netherlands), cameras (mostly Japan), displays (China, Korea, Japan), touchscreen sensors, etc. are made in other countries. There are also smaller chips (bus controllers, power regulators, etc.) or discrete components (resisters, capacitors, etc. - on a system board - those little blocks with just two connections), most of which come from China. To make a single phone or computer requires chips from, literally, all over the world to be brought together into an integrated system. Those integrated systems are usually assembled in SE Asia (Taiwan, Korea, China). They might say "Made in China" (or whatever country) on them, but they contain parts from all over the world.

Cars specifically: They use components from all over the world, same as other computers. The primary difference is that the most critical computers in cars tend to use older technology components. The process of hardening that technology for use in a car (handling extreme temperatures, dirt, grime, dust, vibration, etc. is the process of "hardening") takes time, and so the components used tend to be a couple generations out of date. The fabs that make those older, hardened, parts are less profitable than the fabs that make the latest high end chips for consumer electronics. If resources are limited, the fab owners prefer to send those resources to the more profitable consumer electronics lines.

As for a world without IC engines on ground vehicles... It would be quieter, which would be nice, and I'm certainly not opposed. However, it's not likely to happen in my lifetime. Maybe it will happen(*)(**) in my kids' lifetime. They're in high school and college.


(*) Note "ground vehicles" above. Jet engines are IC engines too! A very significant leap would need to be made to make commercial air travel on battery power possible.

(**) Also excluding hobbyists. There are, after all, still lots of engines around that require leaded fuel. They're in classic cars owned and operated by enthusiasts. There are additives used in gas to replace the lead. I've no doubt that these, and whatever cars from the current crop of ICE-powered cars become classic, will continue to exist and operate in small numbers far into the future.


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d1h

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Posted: 11/19/21 08:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I just got to thinking. Can you picture watching something like a NASCAR race in the future with EV's silently wizzing around the track?

3 tons

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Posted: 11/19/21 09:37am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It’s common knowledge that EV’s produce LESS CO2, right??…Either way, FINALLY a long overdue dose of cogent objectivity has been allowed to enter the discussion…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

8.1 Van

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Posted: 11/19/21 02:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Car salesmen are history in the future with EVs.
video


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naturist

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Posted: 12/02/21 05:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

It’s common knowledge that EV’s produce LESS CO2, right??…Either way, FINALLY a long overdue dose of cogent objectivity has been allowed to enter the discussion…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk


Um, less CO2 depends on what parts of the process you choose to start counting. If you start at the car, yes, they do. If you start at the source of the energy for the car, at the power plant or the oil well, the answer is "maybe." Depends on a lot of factors.

The electric motor has been a much better mover of things than any ICE since forever. The problem has always been where do you get/store the energy. Batteries, or fuel cells, or a generator powered by an ICE have all been problematic.

The railroads switched 70 years ago from external combustion (ie, steam) engines to diesel-electric engines. The locomotive's wheels are turned by electric motors powered by diesel generators. The reason is that the electric motor's peak torque is at stall. As the motor starts turning, torque diminishes. This is ideal for dragging heavy stuff around.

Developments in battery technology are ongoing and are just now beginning to make electric cars and trucks really feasible.





BCSnob

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Posted: 12/02/21 06:45pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I still think it’s an easier problem to solve the reduction/capture the CO2 emissions from thousands of stationary sources (power generators) than billions of moving sources (ICEs).

Thermoguy

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Posted: 12/05/21 09:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Deb and Ed M wrote:

Electric, at its current state, simply won't work for us. Little EV cars might make great grocery getters/errand runners; but anything that needs to run for an extended time, needs an engine. Tell a farmer or cross-country truck driver they can't have an internal combustion engine.....LOL!

And where I live in Michigan - the infrastructure won't support charging a bunch of EVs - my lights flicker when my neighbor turns on his table saw....LOL!


Heard a story about EV buses the other day. A rural bus service is using all EV buses. They have less buses on the road due to the ability to charge while they wait for passengers vs having to be taken off their route to fuel up. A short stop can replenish part of the battery, so multiple short stops can keep an EV going longer than a single long stop for fuel. So, for truck, farming, etc, an EV will actually be more efficient than an ICE. Also, due to their overall size, they can have more battery storage than a small car. The most obvious market for EV and Autonomous is long haul truckers. This is the first place that will be replaced by new technology. It's already being tested and will be here before you know it.

8.1 Van

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Posted: 12/11/21 11:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:


Not really surprising. Most CPUs (Intel in PCs and servers, Qualcomm in smartphones, and A-series processors in Apple and some other products), and GPUs (graphical chips from NVidia and AMD) are mostly made in the US.


TSMC in Taiwan makes all of that and almost none of the most advanced chips are made in the US.

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