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Open Roads Forum  >  Travel Trailers  >  General Q&A

 > Half ton towing

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ktmrfs

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Posted: 11/30/21 07:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

until around 2020 model years, 3/4 ton cc 4x4 diesel had about the same cargo capacity of a similar 1/2 ton, 1800-2400lbs. GM finally bit the bullet and made the std 2500 the next class up, same as a 1 ton with a 11,500 GVWR.

Other than that, there really isn't much difference in cargo capacity between similar configuration 1/2 and 3/4 ton, And most 1/2 tons are more than capable of handling a trailer with a 1000lb tongue weight and a few passenger and some stuff in the bed.


2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
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2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!


edd210

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Posted: 11/30/21 09:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

In 2017 I bought a Coleman 192RD and was pulling it with a 1500
Silverado with the large V6. Okay if you tow on flat land. Looked at Ford trucks and bought a F250. The dealer said I could tow wth a F150 but the package I needed would cost a third more than the F250. It was not as much the tongue weight but the towing power. We went to a campground with a 25% grade and had no problem. F250 the better deal.

Keeth1123

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Posted: 12/01/21 05:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

MitchF150 wrote:

The name of the trailer is not really a good indicator of it's weight.. Neither is it's brochure 'dry weights'...

Look at the sticker for the rigs GVWR. Sure, you don't load anything in your rig, so you'll never get to that weight, but look at it anyway, because eventually, you'll get there... ha, ha... [emoticon]

I have a #7000 GVWR TT that is called a "Mini-Lite".. It's loaded for bear and I carry full load of fresh water too!

Tow it with an F150.. OMG.. [emoticon]

Plus I load the bed with all kinds of stuff too..

Tows fine and made a few mods to help, but in the end, it's a great tow and has some
108,000 miles on it now..

In the end, get the rig that works best for you and if it works, "you chose wisely".. If not... Well, then "you chose poorly".. [emoticon]

Good luck! Mitch
[image]



The micro light 25fkbs has caught my eye. 7,800 pounds gvwr on it

So I guess the estimate is 780 pound tongue + WDH = 880

Bobbo

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Posted: 12/01/21 07:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Keeth1123 wrote:

The micro light 25fkbs has caught my eye. 7,800 pounds gvwr on it

So I guess the estimate is 780 pound tongue + WDH = 880

The amount of weight on the tongue is 10% to 15%. The 10% number is, in my opinion, light. To prevent sway, you should try to get closer to the 15% number. With a 7800 pound GVWR, I would recommend assuming a tongue weight north of 1000 pounds. Plus the WDH, of course.


Bobbo and Lin
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spoon059

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Posted: 12/01/21 07:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Keeth1123 wrote:

Looking at these numbers and forums for towing and it is very annoying. Most of these trailers say micro or light but have 900 to 1,000 lb tongue weights. Basically, you need a 2500 to tow anything but a pop-up camper.

Half tons have a ton of variables. A 3/4 ton ton truck IN GENERAL is a better vehicle for towing. They are the same size as half ton trucks, but they are more robust in terms of frame, engine, transmission, brakes, wheels, tires and duty cycle.

I towed with a half ton and loved it. I bought a new camper that should have been fine (on paper), but after we loaded up all the stuff associated with kids, firewood, bikes, etc, we were overloaded and the tow experience was poor. Upgraded to a 3/4 ton and it tows so much better. Less movement, less push, less noise. It just felt more solid all around.

I will never own a half ton truck again. The price difference to move to a 3/4 or 1 ton is pretty minimal, and the upgrade in towing experience is well worth it with a growing family.

You can absolutely tow a smaller trailer with a half ton, but you limit yourself to trailer size and "stuff" that you bring with you.


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mdcamping

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Posted: 12/01/21 08:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Keeth1123 wrote:

Looking at these numbers and forums for towing and it is very annoying. Most of these trailers say micro or light but have 900 to 1,000 lb tongue weights.


yup

Had my newly purchased 7500 GVW 24RBS Jay Flight has a listed 650# tongue weight, had the dealer/service weight the tongue in their lot prior to closing the deal. Come out to just over 900 lbs, 40% over. My present Jayco X20E is about 30% over listed weight.

Mike


07 Toyota Tacoma,Double Cab, Max Towing 6,500lbs GCWR 11,100lbs
2011 Jayco X20E, Pro Series 800lb Weight Distributing Hitch
Husky Sway Bar, Prodigy Electronic Brake Control
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goducks10

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Posted: 12/01/21 09:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Average TW for Flagstaff Micro Lights is 670 lbs per their brochure weights. For most 1/2 tons thats a good starting point. Most 1/2 ton receivers can handle north of 1,000 lbs.
Average brochure UVW is 5438 lbs.
Again perfect start for 1/2 ton buyers.

Timmo!

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Posted: 12/01/21 09:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Methinks there is more to 1/2 ton vs _____. The gear ratio variable is the wild card with motor size a close 2nd.

My 2005 F150 (5.4L, 4x4 Lariat Supercab and with all the options, 144.5" wheel base) with 3.73 gear ratio has rating (with stabilizer bars) of:

GCWR: 15000 lbs
Max trailer towing: 9300 lbs

The F250/F350 version (5.4L, 4x4, Supercab, 144.5 wheel base with 3.73 gearing)
GCWR: 16000 lbs (1k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 9200 lbs (100 lbs less than F150)

BTW, Ford says the F250 numbers are within a 100 lbs of the F350.

Now, if we change the F250/F350 gear ratio to 4.1, it is a different game.

GCWR: 18000 lbs (3k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 10700 lbs (1400 lb bonus to F150)

And (drum roll please) jumping to from 5.4L to 6.8L engine is where the big jump pops up, the towing capacity increases to 13,600 lbs and 15,100 lbs respectively.

LOL, who would have thought the trailer towing capacity would be 100 lbs less for the F250/F350, when compared to identical engine and gear ratio of my F150.

That's why I purchased an F150 over the F250/F350 to tow my Nash 20' TT (GVWR 7000 lbs)...and it is a joy to drive sans my Nash TT.

Grit dog

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Posted: 12/01/21 10:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^Lol is right. I was waiting for the for the punch line, but you seem to actually be endorsing the 1/2 ton with the same towing capacity on paper as the equivalent to the 3/4 ton in your comparison.
That is funny!


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Gdetrailer

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Posted: 12/01/21 11:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Timmo! wrote:

Methinks there is more to 1/2 ton vs _____. The gear ratio variable is the wild card with motor size a close 2nd.

My 2005 F150 (5.4L, 4x4 Lariat Supercab and with all the options, 144.5" wheel base) with 3.73 gear ratio has rating (with stabilizer bars) of:

GCWR: 15000 lbs
Max trailer towing: 9300 lbs

The F250/F350 version (5.4L, 4x4, Supercab, 144.5 wheel base with 3.73 gearing)
GCWR: 16000 lbs (1k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 9200 lbs (100 lbs less than F150)

BTW, Ford says the F250 numbers are within a 100 lbs of the F350.

Now, if we change the F250/F350 gear ratio to 4.1, it is a different game.

GCWR: 18000 lbs (3k bonus to F150)
Max trailer towing: 10700 lbs (1400 lb bonus to F150)

And (drum roll please) jumping to from 5.4L to 6.8L engine is where the big jump pops up, the towing capacity increases to 13,600 lbs and 15,100 lbs respectively.

LOL, who would have thought the trailer towing capacity would be 100 lbs less for the F250/F350, when compared to identical engine and gear ratio of my F150.

That's why I purchased an F150 over the F250/F350 to tow my Nash 20' TT (GVWR 7000 lbs)...and it is a joy to drive sans my Nash TT.


Hate to disagree, but everything you have used to justify your choice is based on assumptions.

Towing ratings now days has very little to do with gear ratios for the most part. That is due to the advancements in engine and transmission technology giving lots of HP and TQ to be available to hit the ground.

Vehicle size, frame design, axles, tires, brakes all play a big factor in towing.

In trucks there are additional factors at play, generally the GVWR is used to classify them into groups.

GVWR is the max combination of the curb weight and cargo the vehicle can handle.

Most states use GVWR as a way of sorting out just how much the weight the vehicle will be legally registered to haul. The higher the GVWR the vehicle is registered for, the higher cost to register and license the vehicle.

For instance, PA works this way..

PA Weight classification chart

1/2 ton-1 ton pickups generally fall into Class 1-4.

Class 1 5,000 lbs or less

Class 2 5,001 - 7,000 lbs

Class 3 7,001 - 9,000 lbs

Class 4A 9,001 - 10,000 lbs

Class 4B 10,000 - 11,000 lbs

Note, most "1/2 ton" rated trucks will fall into "class 2" or possibly into class 3 category..

Most 3/4 ton trucks typically fall into class 3 or class 4A category topping out at class 4A.

1 ton trucks typically fall into 4A or 4B category.

Seriously doubt your going to find any trucks that fall into class 1 (5,000 lb or less) now days.

To get around these weight classifications the only resort manufacturers can do is to make the trucks "lose weight"..

How is that done?

Lighten the vehicle by reducing frame size, reducing size of vehicle, use lighter materials which may have more strength per lb, use smaller engines, transmissions, axles, tires wheels.

Going back to GVWR, that is the max gross weight the vehicle is allowed to carry which is is the empty or curb weight plus the cargo weight.

Can't say for GM or Ram, but Ford typically limits F150s GVWRs to 7,200 lbs-7,500 lbs.. with available cargo from 1,000 lbs up to 2,200 lbs depending on cab, bed, spring/axle, and trim configuration.

Your trailer tongue weight becomes "cargo" of the tow vehicle which plays a huge factor in how heavy a trailer you are allowed to tow.

F250s, well lets just say that they have considerably more cargo weight available which allows for much heavier trailers due to having a much higher GVWR classification rating..

F250 can be configured to have a considerably higher available cargo rating without going over the 10,000 lb GVWR classification.

Example..

[image]

Yep, that says 3800 lbs of available cargo weight!

That sticker is from my 2020 F250.

Here is the other sticker..

[image]

I would love to see anyone show a sticker from their "1/2 ton" with a available cargo that meets or exceeds 3,800 lbs..

Oh, by the way, the newer F250s if you chose a XL standard cab 4x2 gas with short bed can easily have cargo ratings of 4K..

Sure, a F150 (or any 1/2 ton) can tow something large and heavy and even possibly exceed cargo and GVWR of the tow vehicle if you wish. But you do so at the possible cost of higher mechanical failures or damage. You also take chances of not having a stable of a tow as you could have had with a vehicle with higher GVWR ratings.

The beauty of my F250 choices over the yrs is I have so much leftover cargo weight that WD is not needed to restore weight to the front axle and is optional if I wanted to mess with it. I don't, I am well below rear axle rating, front barely lifts (almost not measurable) so nothing needs restored to the front axle.

As far as cost of F250, well we can compare that if you wish, my 2020 F250 4x2 XLT supercab shortbed with 6.2 was $43K out the door cost with no trade.. You will be hard pressed to by a F150 with half the cargo rating for under $60K out the door.

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