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 > Butt splice connector to join 10 gauge to 12 gauge wire?

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2112

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Posted: 03/28/22 04:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Nice video LittleBill
How did you secure the wires together before you slid on the solder sleeve?

Can you try it again with non-plated copper alloy stranded wire?


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wa8yxm

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Posted: 03/28/22 05:02am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Do it right....solder them together, then use the heat shrink.


Solder is good but a good crimp is just as reliable. How can I say for certain? I have yet to see a building I wired the past 40 years using crimps burn down.


How often do you drive those buildings down a pothole mired freeway at 55mph? LOL. (42 years as a general Yea, I get the push-in outlet thing contractor),, but moving vehicles are not the same as a stationary building.


Those are just garbage. No good Union electrician would ever rely on that type of connection. But the point was a crimp connection is just as good and even better than solder when solder is done wrong. IE to much heat not enough heat, wrong flux, wrong solder.


at one time our company (high tech electronics equipment) looking at field failures started looking at connector failures. What we found was that even with a great deal of training, proper equipment, inspection the failure rate of soldered connectors was higher than crimped connectors. Problem with solder is it is a very hard process to control and train. to much solder= solder wicking up wire, causing failures from flex in the wire, on and on. Field failures went down with crimped connectors. Now
1) there are LOTS of crappy crimp tools around, use them and your failure prone. And good crimp tools are not inexpensive and you need a set of jaws for every type of connector. I've probably spent $400 or more on crimp tools and jaws.
2) if you have been trained in soldering, know the connector and don't have a good crimp tool, solder is a way to go.

So, look at your skills, your tools see what you have. If you DON'T have the tools or the skill, look for some help.


Actually in some cases Crimp is better... As I recall aircraft service solder is not approved crimp is. On Stranded wire I've had excellent luck with crimped connections.. as I said I have a pro-grade crimper small ire crimper (Up to 10 ga) larger wires I've seen some even better crimpers (Hydraulic type).

But for SOLID wire.. I like solder better or but splice and solder over it.

Why is Solder not approved for aircraft?
The soldered connection is "hard" and does not flex. the crimped one (Save for the actual crimp) can flex rather than break or at least that's what I was told.

Still I'll take solder over a wire nut. (Solid to stranded connection) It makes a difference what is being connected to what.
Solid to solid or stranded/stranded wire nuts work fine.. Solid to Stranded not so much.


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tomman58

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Posted: 03/28/22 10:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Mike134 wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Do it right....solder them together, then use the heat shrink.


Solder is good but a good crimp is just as reliable. How can I say for certain? I have yet to see a building I wired the past 40 years using crimps burn down.


How often do you drive those buildings down a pothole mired freeway at 55mph? LOL. (42 years as a general Yea, I get the push-in outlet thing contractor),, but moving vehicles are not the same as a stationary building.


Those are just garbage. No good Union electrician would ever rely on that type of connection. But the point was a crimp connection is just as good and even better than solder when solder is done wrong. IE to much heat not enough heat, wrong flux, wrong solder.


at one time our company (high tech electronics equipment) looking at field failures started looking at connector failures. What we found was that even with a great deal of training, proper equipment, inspection the failure rate of soldered connectors was higher than crimped connectors. Problem with solder is it is a very hard process to control and train. to much solder= solder wicking up wire, causing failures from flex in the wire, on and on. Field failures went down with crimped connectors. Now
1) there are LOTS of crappy crimp tools around, use them and your failure prone. And good crimp tools are not inexpensive and you need a set of jaws for every type of connector. I've probably spent $400 or more on crimp tools and jaws.
2) if you have been trained in soldering, know the connector and don't have a good crimp tool, solder is a way to go.

So, look at your skills, your tools see what you have. If you DON'T have the tools or the skill, look for some help.


Actually in some cases Crimp is better... As I recall aircraft service solder is not approved crimp is. On Stranded wire I've had excellent luck with crimped connections.. as I said I have a pro-grade crimper small ire crimper (Up to 10 ga) larger wires I've seen some even better crimpers (Hydraulic type).

But for SOLID wire.. I like solder better or but splice and solder over it.

Why is Solder not approved for aircraft?
The soldered connection is "hard" and does not flex. the crimped one (Save for the actual crimp) can flex rather than break or at least that's what I was told.

Still I'll take solder over a wire nut. (Solid to stranded connection) It makes a difference what is being connected to what.
Solid to solid or stranded/stranded wire nuts work fine.. Solid to Stranded not so much.


There is no way to think how many solid to stranded connections are out there, I thinking billions in the housing markets as most fixtures are stranded and romex is solid. The list goes on. I cannot think of how many thousands of terminal are crimped. My 55 years in industrial, commercial and residential electrical connections I never soldered any connection other than some electronic boards.


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tomman58

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Posted: 03/29/22 07:15am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Looks like they lost or tossed my last note so I'll try again. After 55 years as an electrician, making thousands of joints from 12 volts to 13,800 volts I can say I never soldered a joint or termination. I am reasonably sure all those plants, commercial buildings and homes are still there and likely have had zero issues in my joints and terms.

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Posted: 03/29/22 08:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jdc1 wrote:

Do it right....solder them together, then use the heat shrink.




Ditto



C.B.


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Cummins12V98

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Posted: 03/29/22 08:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

C.B. wrote:

jdc1 wrote:

Do it right....solder them together, then use the heat shrink.




Ditto



C.B.


Agree, but if a person has no special crimping tools, soldering gun or heat gun a simple wire nut will be more than good.


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Posted: 03/29/22 09:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Cummins12V98 wrote:



Agree, but if a person has no special crimping tools, soldering gun or heat gun a simple wire nut will be more than good.


A wire nut can work, but....

You need to be sure that the two wires are well twisted. That can be difficult if one wire is solid and the other multistranded.

You need to be sure the nut is of the appropriate size.

The wires will come out of the nut pointing in the same direction. If you need a 180 degree orientation, leave plenty of slack to avoid pulling on the wires.

For an RV subject to lots of vibration, consider using plenty of electrician's tape to secure the nut.

profdant139

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Posted: 03/29/22 09:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The other issue with a wire nut is that if the wire gets a lot of handling, a wire nut can get snagged as the wire is wound and unwound. In this case, the cable runs to my portable solar panel -- I will be handling the cable a lot, deploying and un-deploying whenever I change campsites. A bulky wire nut would get a lot of rough handling.

Yes, tape would protect the connection, but it would still be a big fat bundle on each end of my cable.

For a stationary and well-protected application (like a wire inside a cabinet), a wire nut would be perfectly adequate.


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Wade44

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Posted: 03/29/22 10:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I never knew connecting two wires together was so complicated.


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smthbros

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Posted: 03/29/22 11:58am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

tomman58 wrote:

Looks like they lost or tossed my last note so I'll try again. After 55 years as an electrician, making thousands of joints from 12 volts to 13,800 volts I can say I never soldered a joint or termination. I am reasonably sure all those plants, commercial buildings and homes are still there and likely have had zero issues in my joints and terms.


With only 40 years experience under my belt, I have found at least a dozen failed mechanical electrical connections. Most from electricians. One from the electric utility.

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