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enahs
Washington
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Just about back together and want to give my assessment of the Dometic D21 cooktop. As all of the foregoing indicates, this item has an issue above 4500 feet elevation, which includes a great deal of the camping here in the West. In this case, the gas to the cooktop was completely cut off at that elevation. Dometic gives no warning on this but hides behind the insistence that this is normal for gas appliances. But were that issue overcome, any buyer should be made aware that unlike other stove appliances, the D21 does not permit the top beneath the burners tp be removed separately. To clean any significant spill, the entire stovetop must be removed and disassembled. And this is a complicated process — much more than removing a couple of screws and lifting it out. Aside from the cleaning problem this presents, it also prevents ready testing of gas fittings for leaks and proper LP WC specifications without pulling the unit entirely and working on it upside down (making the main gas line very difficult to attach without special equipment). BTW, given that Escape RVs are sold directly by the manufacturer who refers appliance issues to their respective manufacturers, there is no help from Escape on an issue such as this. Escape accepted Dometic's explanation of "normal" for the altitude malfunction. As for Dometic, nothing can be done except through an authorized Dometic warranty center which will be a long wait getting in.
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edited 04/22/22 09:27am by enahs *
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'07 Chevy 3500 Dooley, CC, LT3, D/A
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CharlesinGA
South of Atlanta, Georgia
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I wished this entire thread could be ported over to the Escape forum on RVLife. However RVLife administration gets triggered when something comes from elsewhere. If you have not OP needs to start a thread over there and write up what you and JBarca (John) have to say and discovered.
escapeforum.org
Another consideration is that many of the Escape owners install Dickinson stove tops, and ovens in some situations, and really like them. Again, go to the forum and check it out.
Charles
'03 Ram 2500 CTD, 5.9HO six speed std cab long bed Leer top and 2008 Bigfoot 25B21RB.. previously (both gone) 2008 Thor/Dutchman Freedom Spirit 180 & 2007 Winnebago View 23H Motorhome.
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enahs
Washington
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With no appliances on, I get a reading of about 10.8 or 10.9 CIW at the test tap on the main regulator. Am I correct to think that this regulator should be set to 11 CIW with an appliance on?
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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What I am stating below, is from my background in industrial pressure controls in gaseous pressures (N2, Air etc), steam, and water. I a not a certified LP gas tech, but this is what I have found on RV systems I restore.
The main tank regulator normally has a 11" WC setpoint with no load. There is also regulator droop when an appliances kicks on. There may be a slight dip, then rise above 11 " WC. It should not exceed 14" WC when appliances are on, like the furnace and other large or small volume appliances. With the quality of standard RV gas regulators, (throw away devices, not repairable) it is getting harder to find a new one to hold between 11" WC and 12" WC when running. This may be considered normal in the RV world, again the 14" WC high limit.
Also, there is a tolerance on this, your 10.8" WC and 10.9" WC is an 11" WC in the eyes of many gas gauges with dial increments of 1" WC". In order to read 0.1" WC and be considered accurate, and traceable to the NIST (National Institute of of Standards) you need to buy a very expensive calibrated meter in a calibration program. And then there is how "accurate" +/- the meter is from it's reading.
Trying to dial in a RV gas regulator from 10.8 or 10.9 to 11.0" WC and the regulator be repeatable, is not practical from what I have found. The RV main tank gas regulators in general, again from what I have found, are rated in whole numbers for setpoint of 11" WC. There are not listing decimal points. If someone knows of a quality RV brand gas regulator rated in 0.1 decimal places that is repeatable to those decimal places, please let us know.
Hope this helps
John
John & Cindy
2005 Ford F350 Super Duty, 4x4; 6.8L V10 with 4.10
CC, SB, Lariat & FX4 package
21,000 GCWR, 11,000 GVWR
Ford Tow Command
1,700# Reese HP hitch & HP Dual Cam
2 1/2" Towbeast Receiver
2004 Sunline Solaris T310SR
(I wish we were camping!)
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enahs
Washington
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My 0.8 or 0.9 reading is a guesstimate on my Yellowjacket tester. Visually, it is just a hair below 11.0. I was expecting it to be bit above 11 andI was wondering whether it should be set with appliances running.
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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Ok, you interpolated. I was going on the words you posted. I looked up a Yellowjacket Tester, I'm assuming it is this one? https://yellowjacket.com/product/gas-pressure-test-kit/
Did you tap the gauge lightly once the pressure was to be read? These types of gauges need a light tap to settle them, then read the number. Many times they drop slightly, but not always.
There is also the regulator itself and it's repeatability. Before declaring what it is set for, shut the tank off, bleeding out the pressure, then bring the pressure back up and see if the setpoint changes. Three try's should be about what it is set for on average.
You do need to check the pressure when the system is operating, the furnace is a big draw and see how the regulator reacts and then when the furnace shuts off where the regulator comes back to. Make sure the pressure does not exceed 14" WC when the system is under load or at rest. If it does exceed 14" WC, and it started at 11" WC, then all you can do is get another regulator.
You may find, these RV main regulators may shift slightly on setpoint, even in a resting situation. They are only so good at repeatability for the price point they are made to. Remember, they are rated in 1" WC increments, not on the 0.1 or 0.2 "WC actual. Depending on the company you work for, when reading whole numbers on a gauge with no decimal point, you do not interpolate, you round up or down to the next whole number when the needle is slightly above or below. More then 1/2 way above, round up. More then half way under, round down. I'm not sure what the RV industry follows, but if it industry standard practice, you round up or down the next whole number.
Hope this helps.
John
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enahs
Washington
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Yes, that's the tester I am using. You have been very kind and patient in sharing you expert knowledge. I did tap the gauge before finally reading. But I am now going to go back at this armed with the insights you have provided. The aim is to examine the trailer's system to see if anything other than the stove regulator could be contributing to the stove issue. The new part has been installed in the stove, but it will have to go back to high elevation to really be tested. As you might surmise, I am retired with too much time on my hands!
Many thanks,
Shane
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JBarca
Radnor, Ohio, USA
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Your welcome Shane, Glad to try and help. And really curious on how this comes out.
If your R60 stove regulator does not open after your testing at higher altitude, I have a surplus of new ones that do not close up... PM me I'll send you one.
For sure, report back your findings.
John
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enahs
Washington
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The Seven Universe R60 regulator at the cooktop specifies 1/2 psi as the maximum working pressure. What might that mean. It also specifies the normally anticipated inlet and outlet WC specs seen in RV applications. I understand that 1/2 psi = 13.75 CIW.
* This post was
edited 05/06/22 11:25am by enahs *
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enahs
Washington
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Finally talked to a very knowledgeable engineer at Marshall regulators (which was not the initial contact, had to ask to be transferred for reasons that quickly became obvious). Going to install a Marshall regulator at the tanks. He acknowledges that ambient air pressure does affect the regulators. And insufficient WC may prevent the stove regulator from opening due to decreased atmospheric pressure above 4500 feet elevation. He sees nothing wrong with bumping up the WC setting on the main regulator by 1/2" or so. The only problem will be if too much increase is necessary to get gas flow at the stove, the appliance flames will be poor due to too much gas and insufficient oxygen at that altitude — it's a balancing act. We'll see. He reports, too, that the Marshall 253HP and 253L will both work just fine in an RV application. Both produce 11 WC output. But final installation should be tested and set with stove burners, etc. running.
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