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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Not the cells that fail it is the battery Management System!

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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 04/09/22 04:46am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

TecWriter said:"Get on youtube and you will see the extra ordinary measures needed to destroy an LFP cell."

I see many things on You Tube that are ...... Well...... Entainertaining yes. Factual no. But I do suspect the LiFePO4 types are safe. and I do use one with no special protection. (Small one 12 AH)

****

Someone mentioned LiFePO4 batteries with REPLACEABLE BMS systems.

I do not recall mention of brands or links to them..
Can said someone supply?


Home was where I park it. but alas the.
2005 Damon Intruder 377 Alas declared a total loss
after a semi "nicked" it. Still have the radios
Kenwood TS-2000, ICOM ID-5100, ID-51A+2, ID-880 REF030C most times


3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 04/09/22 10:59am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm said: “Someone mentioned LiFePO4 batteries with REPLACEABLE BMS systems.

I do not recall mention of brands or links to them..
Can said someone supply?”

I did allude to this feature, but not meant in the sense of ‘user replaceable’, and I’ve only seen this on a few of the higher end (e.g. costlier) LFP’s… Not sure about BattleBorn, but Viper and Aims comes to mind…And coincidentally (by correlation??) these tend to be batteries having longer warranties….JMO, Sorry for any unintended confusion…

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S Davis

Western WA

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Posted: 04/09/22 01:16pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I ended up building my own but I am an HVAC/Electrical contractor with over 30 years in the trades. If buying off the shelf I would make sure the battery is serviceable, no welded buss bars and you could take all the connections apart to service/replace them or the BMS.

The cells could last 15-20 years BMS and terminal connections not so much, if the warranty Is done or the company is out of business you at least have an option of repair.

3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 04/09/22 02:11pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This has been a good thread…I should add to my previous (for those not as electrically inclined…) that warranties are only as good as the supplier-vendor, and your proximity to them…Cost from a reputable North American supplier may initially be somewhat higher (QC, and often cylindrical cell quality as well…), but over time something worthy of consideration, and possibly with far less aggravation in the end…JMHO

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RLS7201

Beautyful Downtown Gladstone, MO

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Posted: 04/09/22 02:25pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Every time I see a thread like this, I go give my 6 volt, wet cell, GC batteries a hug. No BMS. No DC to DC charge to protect my alternator. No worries about ambient temperature.
The draw back is having to check the water levels twice a year.

Sent from my flip phone.............

Richard


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3 tons

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Posted: 04/09/22 03:10pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RLS7201 wrote:

Every time I see a thread like this, I go give my 6 volt, wet cell, GC batteries a hug. No BMS. No DC to DC charge to protect my alternator. No worries about ambient temperature.
The draw back is having to check the water levels twice a year.

Sent from my flip phone.............

Richard


I use to feel the pretty much the same way about my sixers - that is until a twist of fate intervened - lol.

I got the opportunity (donated spare time and labor) to fully convert a friends V-nose cargo trailer into a ‘full fledged’ camper, with 400w of MPPT solar, Aims pure-sine pass-thru inverter-charger, air conditioner, Danfoss compressor refer, shower (50 gal fresh), and even a SCR rectifier-based diversion-load hot water heater…He insisted on going with a single 100a/h Aims LFP (later upgraded to two, and 800w solar…).

During the course of this build (which took about 3 or so mos), I was afforded (by being alone, [emoticon] he-he!) pretty much a cart blanc opportunity to assemble, test (actually torture test!!) this ‘weird’ LFP under all kinds of loads, incl. heavy inductive, and (relative to my two GC’s) it’s rapid harvest recovery…Ran the 11kbtu air conditioner a bunch, and on one occasion inadvertently noticed that the LFP had gotten to an amazing 6% SOC (per Victron BMV shunt meter), compressor running!…On another occasion I strung together a full 100’ extension cord to reach over to my garaged camper (from his LF 2500w Inverter) and it ran my air conditioner without a hitch!…After awhile it began to occur to me that for the most part SOC was pretty much a non-issue (due to a relatively flat voltage profile), and that a full charge was mostly unimportant and after this period of exposure, with many free-lance exhaustive trials (some covert!), I felt forced to cave and made the leap into ‘(or back to?) the future’ lol…

In closing, the best way I can relate the difference (via arguably, just analogy) is to say, similar to comparing grid power to GC battery power…I would also add that while a BMS may be a concern for some, charging is far simpler simply because (assuming solar?), staying anywhere’s within say the middle ground of SOC span is plenty good enough, and because of this, charging is much less frequent due to LFP’s far deeper depth of discharge and extent of usable SOC.

Either way, Just don’t ask me anything about pregnancy, because fortunately I’m unable to ever experience it - lol

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S Davis

Western WA

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Posted: 04/09/22 04:20pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The thing I like is they will take every amp I throw at them until fully charged unlike other chemistries that charge slower at the top, oh and the weight I have 500ah of usable capacity at a little over 110lbs.

S Davis

Western WA

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Posted: 04/09/22 04:27pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

RLS7201 wrote:

Every time I see a thread like this, I go give my 6 volt, wet cell, GC batteries a hug. No BMS. No DC to DC charge to protect my alternator. No worries about ambient temperature.
The draw back is having to check the water levels twice a year.

Sent from my flip phone.............

Richard


I have four lightly used Trojan T-105s I can’t find a home for.

wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 04/09/22 04:57pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FOr me there is now (Was not when I was in the motor home) another advantage to LI and one less disadvantage

The advantage is LBS. the LI's don't have as many LBS to lug up the stairs to my battery box.

The no longer a disadvantage is Degrees (F or C) LI's don't like to charge at LOW temp.. NOT a problem here INSIDE the apartment.

Reason why I'm considering LI's (not ready to change yet) for my E-power/12 volt system .. yes I have a 12 volt system in the apartment. also multiple 2-way 12 volt powered radios. fans. Even lights.

jaycocreek

Idaho

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Posted: 04/09/22 05:33pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm wrote:

FOr me there is now (Was not when I was in the motor home) another advantage to LI and one less disadvantage

The advantage is LBS. the LI's don't have as many LBS to lug up the stairs to my battery box.

The no longer a disadvantage is Degrees (F or C) LI's don't like to charge at LOW temp.. NOT a problem here INSIDE the apartment.

Reason why I'm considering LI's (not ready to change yet) for my E-power/12 volt system .. yes I have a 12 volt system in the apartment. also multiple 2-way 12 volt powered radios. fans. Even lights.


I did my lfp with home use in mind..Each battery and inverter can easily be carried inside to run inside appliances/internet/cpap etc rather than totally attached to an RV,with two of them in battery boxes with all the extras and the other in a soft cooler...

I never thought I would go this route after years of wet cell batteries without any issue...The way the world is now,I'm glad I went this route..


Lifepo4-380ah/Lithium NMC-140ah/Solar-400 watts/Wagan & Giandel PSW/Engel & Iceco 3-1 compressor fridge freezer/5K Window AC/Honda 2K

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