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Open Roads Forum  >  Tech Issues

 > Renogy Battery Monitor vs Trimetric UPDATE- Camping Test

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BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 05/19/22 08:58pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

pianotuna wrote:

Hi BFL13,

200 amp-hours of what type of battery?


See my profile for the TC


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on Ford E350-460-7.5 Gas EFI
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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 05/20/22 07:54am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hi BFL13,

Thanks! That is the answer I hoped to hear.


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

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Posted: 05/20/22 08:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BLF, After about 11 yrs of very accurate SOC measurements from two GC’s using a Xantrex LinkLite, upon switching over to LFP’s, no matter what settings I attempted (even borrowed Victron's settings!), I was never able to get the LinkLite to ‘reliably track’ SOC’s beyond about one discharge cycle - in the end, I could only conclude that it’s built-in algorithm was not suitable for a non-FLA voltage profile (I donno?)… In light of this (I don’t claim to know much about SiO2’s!!), it would be interesting to see if you’re able to work through this…(trust, been there done that!!) - Best of luck !

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BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 05/20/22 10:00am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If the monitor has a built-in allowance for heat loss while recharging like Trimetric and Victron have, the allowance needs to match the battery type.

Trimetric uses 94% while Victron uses 95% (IIRC) as default but you can program those values. LFP calls for 99%, while FLA comes out better using the defaults.

If you use a monitor set at 94% on an LFP, it is 5% out of whack for AH restored. (99-94) That is, it will show on the monitor that the LFP is not full yet when in fact it is.

With this Renogy having ( I think!) no charging efficiency set, it will think all the AHs are going to the battery, and it will say the battery is full before it is. That is what looks like happened with recharging my pair of SiO2s.

I do not know what the charging efficiency should be set at for those. They are somewhat like AGMs which do heat up. I got fairly close results with the Trimetric on AGMs so 94% might be good for the SiO2s also. Not a clue.

Doing some math, if you knew the extra AH it took to get them full after the monitor said they were, you could get the percentage for heat loss.

In this case, I did not see when the monitor reached 200AH/100%. It was already there showing 14.6v and 5.xx amps. 5 hours later it was showing 14.7v (charger setting) and 1.xx amps and I dropped to 13.4v for overnight.

So lets pretend it ran over for 6 hours at median/average whatever of 2 amps --that is 12 AH. I had been down as low as 50% SOC so took 100AH restored to full. So the charger really did 112AH to do 100AH-- EXCEPT that is a total WAG.

If the monitor was set to allow 6% for heat it should say 100 after 106 went in.

What if the battery acts like an AGM and really heats up near the end of recharge? The SiO2 could have been truly full earlier and a lot of that 12AH over (estimated) was heat. Don't know. I could feel my AGMs heat up when near full but I did not feel-check these for heat or use my temp gun.

The AGMs got hot at the end and charging amps began to rise again. Oops that was not good and time to turn off the charger!

Anyway, more observations needed. Meanwhile I don't know how to set the charging efficiency allowance on this Renogy Monitor anyway. (If it can be). You don't need that value for discharging; it only matters for recharging.

The way it is now, after some time camping with the AH going down and then back up with any charging, it will show the AH as being higher than it really is and with that show the % full to be higher.

That is where the "morning voltage" comparison for SOC comes in--using the battery's spec table for resting voltage/SOC. Just note the voltage reading is loaded voltage by a little ( you can see the amps load on the monitor). After a while, the voltage version of SOC will be lower than what the monitor AH reading says for SOC.

So you can still tell where you are at if you need to know it that accurately. In real life all you want to know is whether you can go another day before recharging the batts or whether you have to do that today.

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Posted: 05/20/22 10:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

If the battery is known to be fully charged, then you apply a known, timed load such as a halogen shop lamp on it, I would think that would be a good wattage reference point to begin a measured recharge…While maybe not 100% precise, this might be a fair enough exercise (with a little arithmetic [emoticon] ) to arrive at charge efficiency (a kinda power out vs power in thingy…).

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RLS7201

Beautyful Downtown Gladstone, MO

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Posted: 05/20/22 11:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

So many do-dads to keep ya-all concerned. While snow birding, if my solar charger goes into float, then I'll have enough energy to play on the computer and watch satellite TV and then make it through the cold night with the furnace running. When I wake up in the morning I make sure every thing is shut down and check the voltage meter. Normally I see 12.3-12.4 volts and a new day starts.......

Richard


95 Bounder 32H F53
460/528 stroker
2013 CRV Toad
2 Segways in Toad
First brake job
1941 Hudson


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Posted: 05/20/22 12:11pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ha, good to know!! All I can say is I sure hope your ol’Hudson came with a heater!!

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MrWizard

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Posted: 05/22/22 12:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BLF
My battery status monitor work's very similar to yours,, except i can't find a function for recharge compensation percentage, it has number of function values that seem to have no effect on the displayed values and operation, all designated by 3 letter names, i just wait until the meter indicates the 1/2 amp per 100amphrs capacity charge rate


I can explain it to you.
But I Can Not understand it for you !

....

Connected using Verizon and AT&T
1997 F53 Bounder 36s


BFL13

Victoria, BC

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Posted: 05/22/22 01:25pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I thought the Renogy monitor's "battery attenuation ratio" was just fractured English and might mean charging efficiency, but for fun I Googled the term and it is real!

Renogy: ("Battery Attenuation Ratio: After the battery Capacity cumulatively once per cycle, The capacity value is automatically changed according to this ratio.")

(I saw where they use "machine translation" )

Unfortunately the articles I read on that made no sense to me even when written in English.

"Attenuation" apparently just means losing capacity from rated full even when doing a discharge. The Ratio idea might be Peukert or maybe how many cycles before it is down to 80% as for LFPs--??? All very confusing.

My plan is to leave that setting alone and hope nothing bad happens [emoticon]

Charging Efficiency is related to internal resistance of the battery. This varies among battery types and SOC when being charged and discharged and by what rate of charging or discharging.

Best plan for monitoring would be to recharge to full as often as possible and get the monitor to say the batts are full at that time. "reset" or "synch"

If you are off-grid and never manage to get your batts full for a long time, but just have them go down and up then the monitor will go out of whack. Just have to be aware of that and do the morning voltage cross check as mentioned before. Eventually the voltage version of SOC will be your only guide and not the monitor's version of SOC

RV_Ken1972

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Posted: 10/19/22 12:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Matt_Colie wrote:

BFL,

I also have a 15~20yo 2025, but I was looking at Bogart the other day and they have an new model with new tricks....

Matt


Turns out that one of the Trimetric's tricks is terminating charging based on the amp-hrs sent back to the battery. This supposedly makes sure that the reverse reaction is complete, with no lead sulfate left. There's an article on their applications page that describes better than I can.

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