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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > First hand F150 hybrid experience anyone?

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mkirsch

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Posted: 07/06/22 06:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

aftermath wrote:

Not to start any wars here but, isn't this the same argument for the Eco-Boost? I have a friend who gets basically the same mpg I get while towing with my Tundra. It is sort of a wash until you factor in what he gets while not towing. Wowsa, I am glad that I don't have to use my Tundra as a daily driver. Is this the same kind of thing that hybrid owners are experiencing?


It's because none of the "cool kids" have hybrids yet. Once the "cool kids" started getting into the EcoBoost, it became acceptable.

That said I bet I could get 24 with the hybrid. I regularly get 20 with my 5.3L even running on 7 cylinders.


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Groover

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Posted: 07/06/22 08:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

aftermath wrote:

Not to start any wars here but, isn't this the same argument for the Eco-Boost? I have a friend who gets basically the same mpg I get while towing with my Tundra. It is sort of a wash until you factor in what he gets while not towing. Wowsa, I am glad that I don't have to use my Tundra as a daily driver. Is this the same kind of thing that hybrid owners are experiencing?


It's because none of the "cool kids" have hybrids yet. Once the "cool kids" started getting into the EcoBoost, it became acceptable.

That said I bet I could get 24 with the hybrid. I regularly get 20 with my 5.3L even running on 7 cylinders.


I don't believe that getting the rated milage is nearly as challenging as Edmunds makes it out to be. In the article I referenced they mentioned that they also came up way short with the 2.7EcoBoost. Everyone I know that has one raves about the mileage. My brother beats the EPA numbers most of the time with his.

valhalla360

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Posted: 07/06/22 09:24am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

All of the towing tests that I have seen are designed in a way that avoids taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities but I believe that the way that I do most of my towing I would benefit. I was hoping to get some results from driving similar to mine.


I don't think it's designed to "avoid taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities". I think it's designed to mimic typical towing scenarios.

Not many people purposely drive in stop & go traffic while towing an RV. Typically, they are getting out of town on the open road where they can just hum along at a steady speed. It just happens that it doesn't favor a hybrid solution.

By contrast, if you are buying a commuter car (or truck), it's very typical to wind up in stop & go conditions that favor a hybrid.

No secret agenda, just how each vehicle is typically used.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 07/06/22 09:30am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

aftermath wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

The impact is reduced fuel economy. The hybrid shines when driving in town only.


Not to start any wars here but, isn't this the same argument for the Eco-Boost? I have a friend who gets basically the same mpg I get while towing with my Tundra. It is sort of a wash until you factor in what he gets while not towing. Wowsa, I am glad that I don't have to use my Tundra as a daily driver. Is this the same kind of thing that hybrid owners are experiencing?


Yes & No.

The EPA numbers are based on a lightly loaded pickup. Cruising down the freeway empty, the ecoboost is going to be operating effectively as a Naturally Aspirated (NA) engine. This allows the smaller displacement NA engine to operate at near peak efficiency. A large displacement NA engine isn't being tasked hard enough to get to that max efficiency.

Of course, historically, no one wanted the 6 cylinder if they could afford the V8 because acceleration and towing suffered. The turbo addresses that shortcoming by allowing increased output when it's demanded...but that comes with increased fuel consumption. As long as that demand is a small percentage of operating time, it's a win overall.

City driving, if you are constantly asking for lots of boost, you get a peppy ride but not much fuel savings.

Groover

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Posted: 07/06/22 05:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Groover wrote:

All of the towing tests that I have seen are designed in a way that avoids taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities but I believe that the way that I do most of my towing I would benefit. I was hoping to get some results from driving similar to mine.


I don't think it's designed to "avoid taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities". I think it's designed to mimic typical towing scenarios.

Not many people purposely drive in stop & go traffic while towing an RV. Typically, they are getting out of town on the open road where they can just hum along at a steady speed. It just happens that it doesn't favor a hybrid solution.

By contrast, if you are buying a commuter car (or truck), it's very typical to wind up in stop & go conditions that favor a hybrid.

No secret agenda, just how each vehicle is typically used.


I did not say that it was done on purpose, just stated that it was done. I understand that tests are only of value if they are repeatable and the simple test procedure used is easy to repeat. Now that new technology has come along the simple test may not reflect the benefits of that new tech. Also, you have a good point that many campers do long hauls and may not see much benefit from hybrids either. But that is not the way that I use my truck and I have been looking for information more relevant to my use.

I did find it a bit appalling that TFL Trucks did trumpet the news that the hybrid did not help their towing fuel economy in their test. Anyone that knows how hybrids work could have told them that in advance. If they wanted to earn my respect they would have devised tests to make use of the hybrid system and compared it with a non-hybrid so that there would have been some relevant information in the article.

Dadoffourgirls

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Posted: 07/07/22 04:50am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

...If they wanted to earn my respect they would have devised tests to make use of the hybrid system and compared it with a non-hybrid so that there would have been some relevant information in the article.


You may mean, if they wanted to support my agenda, they would have devised tests to support my beliefs.


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mkirsch

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Posted: 07/07/22 07:28am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Dadoffourgirls wrote:

Groover wrote:

...If they wanted to earn my respect they would have devised tests to make use of the hybrid system and compared it with a non-hybrid so that there would have been some relevant information in the article.


You may mean, if they wanted to support my agenda, they would have devised tests to support my beliefs.


It would be nice to see/show where the hybrid may hold an advantage over a straight engine in towing situations, rather than just performing one test and declaring hybrid worthless.

Does it even HAVE to be beneficial for towing?

Most don't tow but a small fraction of the total miles they run the truck.

If the hybrid shines that other 96% of the time, who cares if it doesn't really make a difference on Memorial Day and Labor Day when you take the travel trailer out for the weekend?

Someone who does a significant amount of towing would not buy a hybrid in the first place, possibly not even an F150.

Grit dog

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Posted: 07/07/22 08:18am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Good grief...


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Thermoguy

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Posted: 07/07/22 01:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Groover wrote:

All of the towing tests that I have seen are designed in a way that avoids taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities but I believe that the way that I do most of my towing I would benefit. I was hoping to get some results from driving similar to mine.


I don't think it's designed to "avoid taking advantage of the hybrid capabilities". I think it's designed to mimic typical towing scenarios.

Not many people purposely drive in stop & go traffic while towing an RV. Typically, they are getting out of town on the open road where they can just hum along at a steady speed. It just happens that it doesn't favor a hybrid solution.

By contrast, if you are buying a commuter car (or truck), it's very typical to wind up in stop & go conditions that favor a hybrid.

No secret agenda, just how each vehicle is typically used.


I did not say that it was done on purpose, just stated that it was done. I understand that tests are only of value if they are repeatable and the simple test procedure used is easy to repeat. Now that new technology has come along the simple test may not reflect the benefits of that new tech. Also, you have a good point that many campers do long hauls and may not see much benefit from hybrids either. But that is not the way that I use my truck and I have been looking for information more relevant to my use.

I did find it a bit appalling that TFL Trucks did trumpet the news that the hybrid did not help their towing fuel economy in their test. Anyone that knows how hybrids work could have told them that in advance. If they wanted to earn my respect they would have devised tests to make use of the hybrid system and compared it with a non-hybrid so that there would have been some relevant information in the article.


Hi Groover

So, what would be a test where someone could test a Hybrid towing a trailer that would be a fair test for the Hybrid but also show how people use there trucks towing a trailer? Outside of stop and go traffic, which is typically for commuter and only occasionally for an RVer that got stuck in traffic.

Thanks

Groover

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Posted: 07/10/22 02:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Thermoguy wrote:



Hi Groover

So, what would be a test where someone could test a Hybrid towing a trailer that would be a fair test for the Hybrid but also show how people use there trucks towing a trailer? Outside of stop and go traffic, which is typically for commuter and only occasionally for an RVer that got stuck in traffic.

Thanks


As I recall TFL trucks did two tests. The first was a 70 mile fuel economy test on essentially level interstate with the cruise control on. So minimal braking and acceleration on this test.

The second test was the Ike Gauntlet. Wide open one direction and riding the brakes the other. One battery discharge on the way up followed by one battery charge on the way down.

On these tests the weight of the system may do more harm than it's assist returns as good.

I rarely find myself going either totally flat for 70 miles or traversing 7 miles of continuous grade. Even the Interstates around here have a hill maybe a mile long followed by a similar downhill that requires braking when pulling a heavy trailer. Granted that a 1.5kwhr battery can only store 2 horsepower hours of power but that is 60hp minutes. Enough to help all the way up and down most of these hills. So it is quite reasonable to ask how much it helps on these hills. How much power does it store while controlling speed going down a hill for a minute, how much less are the brakes used. Then, how much power is returned going up the next hill?

Likewise, what benefits does the system return when doing a stop from 60mph and then returning back to 60mph? Does the transmission stay cooler since the hybrid system pulls power out and puts it back in without going through the torque converter? That is not an unusual situation for me when trailer towing.

I just want to get some real world feedback for the type of situations where bybrid systems do work well.

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