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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Will a 3/4 ton do

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Lantley

Ellicott City, Maryland

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Posted: 06/13/22 03:19pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

And this is where it all goes hay wire. We don't want to accept the ratings.
We want to challenge them and re-rate the ratings.
We want to decide which are valid and which are not.
Which ratings apply to our scenario and which can be ignored.
At some point it boils down to either you abide by them or you don't.
I undersrtand some are tax,ratings and registration ratings but in the end they all serve a purpose.
I don't believe your combo is going to explode if you exceed a rating.
However I firmly believe a combo that is within all of its ratings will ultimately be safer and out perform a combo that is within some of its ratings.
In the end 1500,2500,3500 SRW,3500 dually, MDT,HDT basically step up in performance ratings and capabilty.
Stick with all the parameters and your combo will be fine. Or you can Pick and choose the ones you like and pretend there is no ratings system.


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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 06/13/22 04:07pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^Nope, you make it sound far too black and white.
The "difference" is some people posses a greater knowledge and the ability to use it to make educated decisions.
Some don't and are good with the "ratings" which for all intents and purposes, to your point, yield the safest application. Whether "safe" is just a feeling or actual.

And others, who don't know, are looking for the words they want to hear.

Except on this forum, it's generally 10 NOs to 1 YES when if comes to anything technical.


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

cptqueeg

Idaho

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Posted: 06/13/22 05:09pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

ford truck guy wrote:

well......

8 pages of normal RV.Net truck capability arguments and the original OP ( rarin'2go ) was a 1 and done poster on THIS thread.....

I will say that is is/was interesting reading all the response.. what did I learn??

Grit know a TON about trucks and thier capibilities, as do a lot of others..
Cummins HATES IPA
and a Toyota can tow a space shuttle !


Add Grit LIKES IPA to your list of takeaways! Not the trying to be cool with your hipster buds, stifle the bitter beer face like. I just like 'em!
High octane beer! What's not to like??


IPA's are so 2018. The hipsters have moved on! (NTIGAF)

BenK

SF BayArea

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Posted: 06/13/22 08:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Wish there was a like button...

What would happen to the operators of that crane if they went over rated load ? Even though they knew the posted load rating...know the answer and rhetorically asking for the group

First career was in industrial motor controls and one market sector was cranes (material handling). Circa late 60's to mid 80's

Know they had engraved metal ratings labels riveted to the crane, operators cab and on the pendent controller

Our computers would have recorded, sounded an alarm at each overload attempt and refused to move after a preset number of trys. Some required a keyed reset after reaching those numbers of trys...this is why said pretty soon, OEMs will control more to all ratings like they now do with ICE rev limiters

Nuclear and military had more onerous notifications and margins vs civilian of the exact same mechanicals...though they often had locational requirement in the +/- 0.03 inch at some tonnage, which had additional mechanicals, etc


Prefer stout's or porter's



ford truck guy wrote:

Tire ratings / axle ratings are just like Over Head Crane ratings..

They are rated to a certain rating with a safety factor on top of that.. They POST the rate based on every day usage.. Most people will see that they can carry XXX amount of weight and go full Hog till they cant..

I can assure you, If they rated our overhead cranes to 15 ton instead of 10 ton, we would be lifting 15T every day, all day... in a nut shell - There is a safety factor built into EVERYTHING with a MAX capacity.. just how much = ??


* This post was edited 06/13/22 08:11pm by BenK *


-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Joined: 02/22/2015

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Posted: 06/14/22 06:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Lantley wrote:

And this is where it all goes hay wire. We don't want to accept the ratings.
We want to challenge them and re-rate the ratings.
We want to decide which are valid and which are not.
Which ratings apply to our scenario and which can be ignored.
At some point it boils down to either you abide by them or you don't.
I undersrtand some are tax,ratings and registration ratings but in the end they all serve a purpose.
I don't believe your combo is going to explode if you exceed a rating.
However I firmly believe a combo that is within all of its ratings will ultimately be safer and out perform a combo that is within some of its ratings.
In the end 1500,2500,3500 SRW,3500 dually, MDT,HDT basically step up in performance ratings and capabilty.
Stick with all the parameters and your combo will be fine. Or you can Pick and choose the ones you like and pretend there is no ratings system.


It did serve a purpose at one point in time about half a century ago when the class system was created. However, the magical 10k GVWR got imbedded in many state laws as the toping point between commercial and personal vehicles so even if the US DOT and EPA were to alter the truck classes to increase class 2b or have it break away into its own class, there would still be many different state laws limiting it to 10k.

This the main reason why most 250/2500's are limited to 10k and many 350/3500s can have their GVWR altered free of charge through fleet services to 10k. GM actually just recently broke away from this 10k GVWR limitation on some of their 2500's and they are actually class three trucks just like the 3500's. They still offer 10k trucks for fleets, but have higher GVWR limits for those buying a 2500 for personal use.

Also, as Grit stated, it is not always black and white. There are many laws and limits that have grey areas. Take Texas prima facie speed limits(Transportation code 545.352). Even though a county road may have a posted speed limit of 55 mph, I can legally go up to 70 mph(65 at night) if it is safe to do so(ie little traffic, dry road, etc.). Many people and even police officers do not know about this law. So to many who are ignorant about the law and only look at things as black and white, they see the posted speed limit as being there for a reason and is the max safety limit when in reality it is not. The prima facia speed limit is. Same goes with the GVWR the manufacturer is forced to give the 2500 under 10k. It is not binding to the consumer in the eyes of the law, the registered GVWR is and you can even register your vehicles to exceed the manufacturers GVWR in many states.

* This post was last edited 06/14/22 07:59am by ShinerBock *   View edit history


2014 Ram 2500 CTD
Highland Ridge Silverstar 378RBS

mkirsch

Rochester, NY

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Joined: 04/09/2004

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Posted: 06/14/22 07:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Grit dog wrote:

The "difference" is some people posses a greater knowledge and the ability to use it to make educated decisions.


Don't sugar coat it. What you mean is, some people ignored the weight ratings, and nothing bad happened, so are now self-proclaimed "experts" on pickup truck design.


Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

ShinerBock

LVTX

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Posted: 06/14/22 07:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

The "difference" is some people posses a greater knowledge and the ability to use it to make educated decisions.


Don't sugar coat it. What you mean is, some people ignored the weight ratings, and nothing bad happened, so are now self-proclaimed "experts" on pickup truck design.


No, what he means is some people may have been in the commercial truck industry for 20 plus years and have spec'ed thousands of class 2-8 trucks for commercial fleets to know which classes/truck ratings are limited by old federal and state laws that bureaucrats do not want to change because it is revenue from fleets and which classes/truck ratings are actually limited by the capabilities of their mechanical parts.

Tell me this.
My 2500's front axle is the same as the 3500 version.
My 2500's front suspension is the same as the 3500 version.
My 2500's frame strength is the same as the 3500 version.
My 2500's brakes is the same as the 3500 version.
My 2500's rear axle is the same as the 3500 version.
My rear suspension is the only thing different from the 3500.

My 2500 has a GCWR of 25,000 lbs.
The 3500 has a GCWR pf 25,000 lbs.
My 2500 has a trailer rating of around 17,000 lbs
The 3500 has a trailer rating of around 17,000 lbs
My 2500 has a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs.
The 3500 has a front GAWR of 6,000 lbs.
My 2500 has a rear GAWR of 6,500 lbs.
The 3500 has a rear GAWR of 7,000 lbs.

Only 500 lbs separates their axle ratings yet because the 2500 is a class 2b truck it is limited to 10k GVWR(which means lower payload as well) while the 3500 has a 12,300 GVWR since it is a class 3 truck which has a max limit of 14k GVWR. Only 500 lbs separate their total GAWR's yet 2,300 sperate their GVWR(and payload). Tell me how you think it is limited by hard parts and not laws and regulations?

* This post was last edited 06/14/22 12:45pm by ShinerBock *   View edit history

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 06/14/22 08:17am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

cptqueeg wrote:



IPA's are so 2018. The hipsters have moved on! (NTIGAF)


What kind of beer is NTIGAF? LOL

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 06/14/22 08:23am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

mkirsch wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

The "difference" is some people posses a greater knowledge and the ability to use it to make educated decisions.


Don't sugar coat it. What you mean is, some people ignored the weight ratings, and nothing bad happened, so are now self-proclaimed "experts" on pickup truck design.


Yes, I'm sure that happens...But you're trying to put words in my mouth.

Since none of the folks who believe all the factory "ratings" usually have anything of substance to back up their claims that exceeding some "ratings" is "bad", I'll ask another question.

How did Ford and GM seemingly magically up the GVWR significantly on their 3/4 tons, by more than 1000lbs in some cases with no discernable changes to anything on the truck?

(Hint, the answer was just posted by Shiner....)

PA12DRVR

Back in God's Country

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Posted: 06/14/22 09:27am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

"Our computers would have recorded, sounded an alarm at each overload attempt and refused to move after a preset number of trys. Some required a keyed reset after reaching those numbers of trys...this is why said pretty soon, OEMs will control more to all ratings like they now do with ICE rev limiters"

Not quite the same but as a young buck installing piping on a natural-gas-fired-steam boiler-steam turbine power generating plant, I was in the plant when a series of out of spec issues (low steam flow on one turbine, excess on another, failed gas valve delivering full fuel to a boiler running at 40% capacity, etc) resulted in an automatic system "shutdown"....the most dramatic effects of which were the steam blowdown (wherein a 10" sch. 80 steel line wiggled like an RV hose between supports spaced circa 80' apart) and the max capacity gas flare. Lots of shiny lights and interesting sounds.

An out-of-spec truck trailer combo won't result in the same sort of fireworks, but at the end of the day, one has to decide whether they will stay in spec or not. Hopefully if they go out of spec, there is some analysis behind that decision.


CRL
My RV is a 1946 PA-12
Back in the GWN

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