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valhalla360
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afidel wrote:It'll depend on what bridges were taken out, Yellowstone River bridge was slated to take 3 years to replace and that was with funding secured and a contractor lined up. I hope no major bridges were taken out but the flooding is the worst on record, beating the 1918 flood by many feet on several gauges. Seeing the Carbella Bridge washed away gives some idea of the conditions being faced in the area.
Long construction times are typically related to maintenance of traffic. If you have to keep traffic flowing, you have to do things in multiple stages and spend a ton of time on stuff that isn't actually rebuilding.
Let the contractor shut everything down completely and a bridge replacement can be 2-3 months.
In an emergency, there are ways around the normal approval rules.
This summer may have significant access limitations but I'd be willing to bet by spring/summer 2023, all the main roads are back open.
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wapiticountry
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The North Entrance road appears to be the most damaged area in the park. There is a back service road/track that goes thru the hills from Mammoth to Gardiner. There has been much local discussion about improving that road exactly because of this possibility. But there is a strong lobby against ANY construction within the park. They have stymied any improvements up to now. Realistically, that road should be improved to the point it becomes the primary entrance road. It isn’t as scenic as the road thru the Gardiner River Canyon, but it wouldn’t be subject to flooding and annual rock slides.
Another concern is highway 89 from Livingston/I-90 to Gardiner may have also suffered catastrophic damage. Water was multiple feet deep across the highway in Yankee Jim Canyon and a highway bridge over the Yellowstone north of the canyon had a washout on one end and it is unknown if the bridge has suffered structural damage.
There is also a significant threat of catastrophic flooding returning later in the week as more rain is forecast and will be accompanied by much higher temperatures creating rapid snow melt and huge runoff. All in all this could be close to a death blow to the town of Gardiner which is 100% dependent on summer tourism and Yellowstone Park.
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agesilaus
North Florida
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Mail
Say what you want about the Mail but they do shine when it comes to events like this. Lots of photos and videos of the event. Gardiner is heavily damaged and cut off, the Carabella bridge built in 1918 is washed away. I assume the BLM campground right near there is kaput. The flood waters were at 15 ft compared to the old record of 11.5 set in 1918, the year the Carabella bridge was built.
Red Lodge is flooded.
So it sounds like the north part of the park is going to be closed for a extended period. Bridges and roads heavily damaged. From what I've seen the NPS is very slow to repair damage compared to state governments who will have contractors working by the end of the week. The NPS will be lucky to get started before the snow flies.
Since this is of such general interest I posted this on other sites too
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bobsallyh
Livingston, TX.
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Another thing to remember is the warehousing, the supplying of the stores and fuel stations, restaurants etc. all within park boundaries.
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agesilaus
North Florida
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Lots of info here
That's the Long Long Honeymoon site, lots of info for incoming campers/visitors. Websites, phones etc.
They are giving out some bad advice suggesting Glacier as an alternative when that park is so overloaded already that they have started access control like Yosemite.
Gardiner highway from Gardiner entrance to Mammoth is kaput. That;s the washed out road all the videos are showing. Gardiner looks to be in terrible shape. Livingston may be flooded. West Yellowstone and Jackson seem to be OK.
My guess, the Gardiner entrance is kaput for years. Hopefully they will rebuild the highway in a better location. It was very twisty and followed the river closely.
Probably the east entrance from Cody, the west entrance at West Yellowstone and the southern entrances at Jackson's Hole via the Tetons will probably reopen in weeks or months. Geyser basins seem to be OK.
No report on the Lamar valley, there is another branch of the Yellowstone running thru is with so very low land but few structures, roads or campgrounds.
Beartooth highway? Red Lodge of all places may have seen some flooding. That entrance is NOT RV friendly
Grand Tetons will probably be overwhelmed this summer.
More rain/snow forecast for the coming weekend
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afidel
Cleveland
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I would complain about how moving the road would lose access to the hot baths, but based on the erosion they likely don't exist anymore anyways.
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PButler96
Midwest
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valhalla360 wrote:afidel wrote:It'll depend on what bridges were taken out, Yellowstone River bridge was slated to take 3 years to replace and that was with funding secured and a contractor lined up. I hope no major bridges were taken out but the flooding is the worst on record, beating the 1918 flood by many feet on several gauges. Seeing the Carbella Bridge washed away gives some idea of the conditions being faced in the area.
Long construction times are typically related to maintenance of traffic. If you have to keep traffic flowing, you have to do things in multiple stages and spend a ton of time on stuff that isn't actually rebuilding.
Let the contractor shut everything down completely and a bridge replacement can be 2-3 months.
In an emergency, there are ways around the normal approval rules.
This summer may have significant access limitations but I'd be willing to bet by spring/summer 2023, all the main roads are back open.
2 to 3 months? Ever been involved in building one? You would ne lucky to pop in a two lane precast box culvert in 2=3 months that carries a 3' wide brook. Actually you would not have all the required parts and pieces in 2=3 months if you already had the design and permitting, which usually takes a year or longer, typically a lot longer than that. You have to have a study done on the impact to the hairy chested nutscratcher. Then you have all the other bureaucratic red tape and all the union deals that have to be made with gubmints involved.
We are 9 weeks behind schedule on floor pours for a certain internet retailers distribution center who will remain nameless, because we can't get concrete timely. No shortage of cement, aggregate, and water. It's a shortage of truck drivers. So much so we looked into setting up a portable plant but even with money being no object per Jeff, that can not be pulled together at present in any sort of reasonable time, so we wait.
Bridges in 2-3 months? Come on man.
* This post was
edited 06/15/22 03:15am by PButler96 *
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agesilaus
North Florida
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Construction can go faster, they fixed that bridge over the Mississippi in Minnesota IIRC in record time with incentives for early completion. That was when both government and the contractors were highly motivated tho. And before the B-economy. No way will the NPS move that fast and they probably don't have a pot of money sitting around to fund it. Plus there are all those permits, archaeological permits, ecological permits, historical permits and the list goes on.
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JKJavelin
Milwaukee, WI
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We are in the Headwaters campground just outside the south entrance right now, been here almost a week. It sounds like they expect the northern section of the Park to be closed for the entire season, and the southern portions at least the rest of this week. It sounds like they're waiting for the possibility of more rain this weekend. They are still assessing the damage.
YouTube channel Park Junkie works in the Park and is posting new videos inside the park.
JK
PS... They will also go to a timed entry system to handle many tourists visiting the smaller park area.
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bobsallyh
Livingston, TX.
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Just remember all Constuction in YNP is weather related. Very short season for most projects. H & K Contruction in Idaho Falls must be rubbing their hands together.
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