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pianotuna

Regina, SK, Canada

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Posted: 06/17/22 07:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Hi

Open neutral may be causing the voltage to spike. It may damage the motor on the air conditioner.

Do you know what the voltage was?


Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Bobbo

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Posted: 06/17/22 08:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The open ground is referring to the safety ground. As long as nothing shorts out to the frame, you are fine without it. For decades, houses were wired with hot and neutral but no safety ground. My sister inherited our parents' house built in 1957 and is remodeling it. It has no 3 prong plugs because it has no safety ground wires, anywhere. (She is replacing all of the electric so she will be properly grounded when finished.) Where the safety ground is useful is when something does short a hot wire to the frame. That energizes the frame and you can get a nasty, potentially lethal, shock if standing on the ground and touching the frame. The safety ground, however, immediately shorts that hot wire out to trip the breaker.


Bobbo and Lin
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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 06/18/22 04:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

My EMS flashed Open ground.. I did an emergency fix (NO I will not describe it) but the issue turned out to be a screw lose at the park's distribution panel on the NEUTRAL wire.

How that works.. Voltage neutral to ground should be zero.
on 50 amps voltage side to neutral should be 120 volts (And 240 side to side)

Normally if you have an OPEN neutral the side to neutral voltages will be ... Wild (swing all over creation as A/C's kick on and off for example) the EMS sees this and flags "OPEN NEUTRAL"

But if the neutral is not open but "high resistance" (poor connection) it may not swing enough to trip the "Open neutral" alarm but even 1 volt neutral to ground should trip (Open ground)

Why is open ground dangerous?

Well the neutral is grounded at at least one point (Park distribution panel) and possible more (No I wont bother listing). IF the ground is open and for any reason there is a hot-Chassis short.. When you reach out to open the door on the RV. or hook up water. or otherwise touch both ground and RV YOU become a conductor.. and not the musical kind.

Even a few mA through the wrong part of your body and "Brothers and sisters, we are gathered today to remember our dear departed friend (your name here).

And most RV's on 30 amps. with an open ground.. Will measure 60 volts chassis to ground (though it can't deliver a whole lot of current) as an electronics tech I do know why.. Though I've never been damaged by that.. I've felt it a few times.


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JRscooby

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Posted: 06/18/22 04:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Also want to show my ignorance; Will the EMS trip if the open ground is on the load side, or only on input side?
I read often that CG electrics may not be great. I can easily see how they could be under sized for all the power demanded. (Bell, some states have that issue) But if you think of the liability a campground would face from a open ground I can't imagine that problem would not be addressed.
Now if EMS only shuts off for incoming problems, the OP should report to management. (Might be best anyway, so they know should check their snot) But if it is possible the EMS saw a problem with the RV should the OP get somebody to check his stuff out?

garmp

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Posted: 06/18/22 06:55am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll, that's what I did the next day after I thiought about it. Used my dog bone & the 50 amp & all is fine. Did report it on our way out.
Thanks all for helping me understand.


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time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 06/18/22 09:44am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

Also want to show my ignorance; Will the EMS trip if the open ground is on the load side, or only on input side?
I read often that CG electrics may not be great. I can easily see how they could be under sized for all the power demanded. (Bell, some states have that issue) But if you think of the liability a campground would face from a open ground I can't imagine that problem would not be addressed.
Now if EMS only shuts off for incoming problems, the OP should report to management. (Might be best anyway, so they know should check their snot) But if it is possible the EMS saw a problem with the RV should the OP get somebody to check his stuff out?
The EMS looks for a neutral-ground bond. The only place this bond should be present is at the source. The source is the main breaker panel at the utility feed.

Campgrounds vary. I have reported some that when I return it was not fixed. I am sure they thought it was just me as the next camper probably had no EMS and it worked fine even if unsafe.


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wa8yxm

Davison Michigan (East of Flint)

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Posted: 06/18/22 03:54pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

JRscooby wrote:

Also want to show my ignorance; Will the EMS trip if the open ground is on the load side, or only on input side?
I read often that CG electrics may not be great. I can easily see how they could be under sized for all the power demanded. (Bell, some states have that issue) But if you think of the liability a campground would face from a open ground I can't imagine that problem would not be addressed.
Now if EMS only shuts off for incoming problems, the OP should report to management. (Might be best anyway, so they know should check their snot) But if it is possible the EMS saw a problem with the RV should the OP get somebody to check his stuff out?


On the input side.
if you have any devices with a 2 blade no round pin plug those devices operate without a ground (Double insulated tools. Some kitchen appliances. Most every "Wall Wart" charger) so the EMS only cares about supply side opens

bucky

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Posted: 06/19/22 02:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The few times I've had a pedestal issue in our 25 years of RVing I've called or visited the office and it was fixed in 15 minutes. Maybe try that next time.


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JRscooby

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Posted: 06/19/22 06:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wa8yxm wrote:



On the input side.
if you have any devices with a 2 blade no round pin plug those devices operate without a ground (Double insulated tools. Some kitchen appliances. Most every "Wall Wart" charger) so the EMS only cares about supply side opens


Thank you.

I have a pretty good understanding of wiring, and how it should be done. But know nothing about EMS.
I worked as CG host for a couple months. When a camper complained about a power pole, all the state allowed me to do was use what adapters needed to plug in my little polarity tester. If the right LEDs light up, show the camper, explain the issue is in their camper. If that tester showed a problem, call shop. If could not get fixed, relocate. If I had a way to prove it, I would bet most of the open ground detected by EMS would be in the 30 AMP outlet.

dedmiston

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Posted: 06/19/22 07:22am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

garmp wrote:

To those whose inept attempt at scarcasm only reveals your lack of knowledge on the subject I feel sorry and apologize to the reading audience for you wasting their time.
I did ask, because I was trying to learn.


I'm glad you're a senior member, because at least you were halfway prepared for these kinds of responses.

There's so much dogma here, and woe be to he who admits to deviating from the orthodoxy. Heaven help you if you publicly admit here that you skipped your water pressure regulator or your EMS. And shame on he who questions whether his setup really requires a weight distribution hitch. Are you continuing to tow that new trailer while you save up for a new truck? Yep, you're overweight. Never fear though, as the rest of us will soon be safe because the authorities have been notified and your insurance will be cancelled any minute.

Guess what: I forgot to brush my teeth one time last month and maybe I'm not wearing underwear today. Come at me, bro.

Sure, these are exaggerations, but not by much. I think we got a little more rigid during the pandemic too. People got a little edgy and the stress of not being able to camp and now the added stress of higher fuel costs and scarce reservations has distracted some folks from remembering the Golden Rule. I think a lot of people are spending more time behind the keyboard and less time actually camping nowadays, and it's making otherwise nice people say crappy things.

It would be awesome if people could use their own backspace keys more often and snip out the ugly things they typed before they post. We're losing that self control though.

Love one another.

Treat others as you would want to be treated.

And by the way, I'm actually wearing underwear today. See? People lie on the internet all the time. (And now you really can't be sure whether I'm wearing underwear or not, because I lied.)


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