RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Is It Worth It?

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Is It Worth It?

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
wanderingaimlessly

Buggs Island lake

Senior Member

Joined: 08/23/2017

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 02:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The one thing not mentioned by others is age. New gassers 2021 or 22, with 8 to 10 speed tranny's are way more capable than they were just 5 years ago. The Ram's 6.4 when mated to the 8 speed, GM's 6.6 with a 10 speed or Fords Godzilla, they all are more capable than the gassers of 2017.

Crespro

SoCal

Senior Member

Joined: 07/23/2004

View Profile



Posted: 06/23/22 02:50pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

We are half towing and half not towing and pull a 14.6K fifth wheel. We went with gas (7.3L and 4.30 axle, 26K GCWR) and it works fine for us. I agree that a larger RV should be pulled by a diesel. With the 10 speed, we downshift a lot, but it pulls fine up the hills. We are 22.6K combined, with about 15% reserve margin. A diesel would have a much larger reserve. I am comfortable with 15%, but understand many who would prefer 40% reserve margin.


Crespro 2021 Grand Design 310GK-R, 2020 F250LB, 7.3L, 4.30, Reese 27K

way2roll

Wilmington NC

Senior Member

Joined: 10/05/2018

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 02:59pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Diesel will net you 25 to 30% better mileage. Just do the math in your area and find out if diesel wins out in the cost contest or not.


I agree with this.

Despite higher price at the pump you are still better off because your MPG is better in a diesel than gas. With a gas truck you will buy more fuel than you will with a diesel, enough to make it cost more in the long run.

but, the cost of a diesel truck is considerably more. How long the difference in price tag to the net in overall fuel costs would probably be long enough that it doesn't matter.

Then you have value. Diesel trucks - despite fuel costs - retain higher value than the equivalent gas trucks. So you pay more up front but it's worth more on the back end.

Finally, I think you said it yourself, that a diesel truck simply does the job better. The new gas trucks are phenomenal and likely better than a diesel truck a few years ago, but apples to apples, the diesel just does the job easier. No offense to gas truck owners. Either will do the job adequately.

Personally, I don't really care for my new truck to just drive around. It's big, torquey, bouncy and rough riding. Once you hook up the FW though it's like a Cadillac. It's made to haul a big load, not really made as a grocery getter. I do find that I like it on long trips even without the RV but otherwise it's not a lot of fun to run to the store.


2020 F350 STX 6.7L Turbo Diesel
2020 FR Cedar Creek Silverback 29rw

theoldwizard1

SE MI

Senior Member

Joined: 09/07/2010

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 03:03pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

IMHO, diesel does NOT make sense unless you
  • Have a load that can't possibly be towed by a gasser
  • Drive 50,000+ per year


Preferably, both !

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 03:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

wanderingaimlessly wrote:

GM's 6.6 with a 10 speed they all are more capable than the gassers of 2017.


IF only GM was smart enough to do that...instead, they get the old 6 speed and only 3.73's just to make sure they're firmly still in 3rd place in the HD gasser power category....


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29

thomas201

Eastern Panhandle WV

Senior Member

Joined: 08/21/2014

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 03:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 03:43pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

theoldwizard1 wrote:

IMHO, diesel does NOT make sense unless you
  • Have a load that can't possibly be towed by a gasser
  • Drive 50,000+ per year


Preferably, both !


Or don't wanna spend every pull slummin' it at 35mph in the right lane with your 4 ways on with all the OTR Fed Ex trucks and heavy haulers.

Or if you don't have the extra cash to spring for a diesel (that you'll get back later anyway.)

Or if you can't handle an oily pump nozzle.

Or if you think 400hp is alot but don't understand torque.

Or if you like the smell of brake pads in the morning comin' down the mountain after slummin it all the way up.

Or if enough power to do a smoky burnout with a 1500lb tongue weight trailer on dry pavement scares you.

Or....

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 06/23/22 04:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

thomas201 wrote:

I got to be friends with two company fleet managers over the years. One with a fleet of hundreds of our type of trucks, the other had several thousand in the US, along with a fleet of heavy duty trucks.

Initial cost, all costs of ownership (fuel, parts, oil, antifreeze, mechanic time and so on), then your exit price when you sell the vehicle. Pass it though Discounted Cash Flow Rate of Return (Internal ROR) and/or Net Present Value, and there you have it. They bought gas unless the usage mandated diesel (heavy loads).

Now for fun, I just loved towing for 10 years with a diesel, but don't confuse that with money. Fun and money, do not normally travel together.


And while that is a good point and virtually every large corporate fleet of pickups is gassers (unless like you said, diesel power being absolutely necessary), there are probably a dozen significant differences between "fleet" considerations and "personal" considerations.

It'll make my fingers hurt, but here's a few.

1. Fleet vehicles generally = multiple or maybe hundreds of different drivers over the course of a vehicles' lifespan. Not conducive to the bit of extra consideration diesels need.
2. Same as above, but far more valuation is lost due to damage on fleet vehicle than an average personal vehicle. IE, a person may have a dump run truck or wood truck for beatin on. Alot of fleet vehicles, they are ALL proverbial wood run trucks...
3. Resale on fleet vehicles is a lower % of initial cost than comparable (cared for) personal vehicles pretty much across the board.
Would you intentionally spend more knowing you're getting a lower ROI, up front?
4. Reliability. Absolutely a factor. And no one would argue that the avg diesel needs a little more care and can have different more expensive problems than an average gasser. For a fleet manager/owner, this combined with higher initial expense, and the factors listed above, tip the scales the other direction.

5. Initial expense is lower with gassers, yet the "fleet" has a diesel somewhere if it's needed. Avg private owner has 1 truck for everything, therefore can't get out of the gasser for week when it's time to tow the 5ver. And $10k/truck over 100 trucks a year is...alot of money saved on the bottom line, for something that will be subject to #1-3 above.

I could keep going, but point is , fleet considerations aren't necessarily synonymous with personal vehicle considerations.
From a personal standpoint, I get a greater ROI out of most vehicles compared to many other people. And a diesel will cost you more if you view it as a throw away Solo cup and not a piece of fine china (true for all vehicles).
I can confidently say that EVERY diesel I've had has returned a greater ROI, all in, than most gassers. And a few gassers have taken a hit that I would not have expected.

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 06/23/22 04:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

What did you like towing with more??? That's your answer.


If you need to sooth your ego and money is a non-issue, by all means get the diesel. They are great fun.

Unless you are doing 30-40k miles per year towing, the fuel savings won't pay for the diesel up charge.

Biggest driver is what are you pulling.
- If you are pulling a 7k lb trailer, go gas.
- If you are pulling an 18k lb trailer, go diesel.

For me the break point is going to be somewhere around 12-15k lb.
- With lots of mountain driving, I would use the lower end of that range.
- With modest mountain driving, I would use the upper end of that range.
- Obviously, check the actual tow and payload ratings.
You don't need to pay for the diesel upcharge. That premium price for the diesel will still be there when you sell it. Not only that, but a gas truck with 150K on it is considered by most to be used up. A diesel with the same is considered broke in. IOW used diesel sell easier/faster than used gas trucks and for more money..... The gas motor fans always leave that part out.... And the fun/ Ego factor is just a bonus for driving a more capable truck.

Gas truck people seem to feel the need make a lot of excucses or rationalizations for their choice.... Diesel tuck owners just smile a lot.



Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountryC CD/A 4X4 DRW



PA12DRVR

Back in God's Country

Senior Member

Joined: 09/17/2003

View Profile



Posted: 06/23/22 04:29pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

For me, although I no longer tow an RV (it was a 39' FW when I last RV'd), I have 2 diesel vehicles and 1 gasser that are used for towing. For most of the towing, I use the F250 so that there is no problem when I'm pulling the boat or the sno go trailer and push down on the pedal, something happens other than a gas engine wrapping up to 5k+rpms. I know it's more semantics than physics, but I'm just more comfortable towing loads that get up into the capacity of the TV if it's diesel. Some concept on the "big" truck: when the equipment trailer needs to be moved, and I hook up to the F550, I know I won't set any speed or mileage records, but it will go.

The Sequoia hauls the jet ski, the kayaks, and the log splitter just fine.

...and as an added thought, it wasn't that long ago (although maybe 8 - 12 months) that diesel was priced lower than gas and fuel cost was cheaper in the F250 for a non-towing road trip than in the Sequoia.


CRL
My RV is a 1946 PA-12
Back in the GWN

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Is It Worth It?
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2022 CWI, Inc. © 2022 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.