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 > EVs Stealing RV Campsites!! Not....

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fj12ryder

Platte City, MO

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Posted: 07/21/22 08:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

It's very possible that the park with every site a FHU doesn't offer tent camping. That's not unusual, I've seen a number of RV parks that don't provide sites for tent camping.


Howard and Peggy

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valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Posted: 07/21/22 08:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Maybe. But I can tell you from many days of EV RV camping that it’s unusual to get more than 25 or 30 kWh from a park pedestal on an overnight stay at a campground. And that is only if our trailer is unplugged. We have hydronic heat and hot water in our little trailer which means both heat and hot water use either one or two elements (selectable) to operate (or propane of course). Between that and the fridge I’m pretty sure it’s drawing close to 24 amps or roughly the same as the car. The only difference is if there is a voltage drop in the park the trailer keeps drawing max whereas the car senses the voltage drop and automatically tapers current to either 18 amps (at 113 volts) or 12 amps (at 109 volts) ish. As soon as that happens we get a text indicating charging is reduced because of low voltage. It does the same thing if it senses the receptacle temperature is rising because of a poor connection.

Jmho but if there is a difference in cost it’s probably closer to a couple or three bucks. Really we have never checked. Just a guess.

Might be different on a 50 amp site but we have never camped on one yet.


As you show, the EVs will try to max out the supply. Even at the reduced amperage at 113v, a 20hr stay would be over 40kwh. Assuming 24amps at 120v, that's up around 58kwh.

Right now when it's a stray EV once a week, most owners won't even understand. If it ever becomes a significant percentage of the vehicles, expect park owners to get frustrated. Even if it's only $3...if you have 50 EVs charging every night, that's over $50k in extra electric consumption per year.

On a 50amp pedestal, it simply scales up. Also, most 50amp pedestals have both a 50amp and a 30amp...do the EV owners plug the RV into one and the EV into the other? If it's a small EV being pulled by a MH, the batteries may reach full and stop charging but if the tow vehicle is an EV, Say the new F150, pulling 120-130kwh is well within the capability of a 50amp outlet given an overnight stop.

Overloading the park system is a separate issue.

Of course, if it's a gradual shift, expect a premium charge for people camping with EVs to be gradually implemented or a prohibition against EV charging.


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Reisender

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Posted: 07/21/22 09:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Maybe. But I can tell you from many days of EV RV camping that it’s unusual to get more than 25 or 30 kWh from a park pedestal on an overnight stay at a campground. And that is only if our trailer is unplugged. We have hydronic heat and hot water in our little trailer which means both heat and hot water use either one or two elements (selectable) to operate (or propane of course). Between that and the fridge I’m pretty sure it’s drawing close to 24 amps or roughly the same as the car. The only difference is if there is a voltage drop in the park the trailer keeps drawing max whereas the car senses the voltage drop and automatically tapers current to either 18 amps (at 113 volts) or 12 amps (at 109 volts) ish. As soon as that happens we get a text indicating charging is reduced because of low voltage. It does the same thing if it senses the receptacle temperature is rising because of a poor connection.

Jmho but if there is a difference in cost it’s probably closer to a couple or three bucks. Really we have never checked. Just a guess.

Might be different on a 50 amp site but we have never camped on one yet.


As you show, the EVs will try to max out the supply. Even at the reduced amperage at 113v, a 20hr stay would be over 40kwh. Assuming 24amps at 120v, that's up around 58kwh.

Right now when it's a stray EV once a week, most owners won't even understand. If it ever becomes a significant percentage of the vehicles, expect park owners to get frustrated. Even if it's only $3...if you have 50 EVs charging every night, that's over $50k in extra electric consumption per year.

On a 50amp pedestal, it simply scales up. Also, most 50amp pedestals have both a 50amp and a 30amp...do the EV owners plug the RV into one and the EV into the other? If it's a small EV being pulled by a MH, the batteries may reach full and stop charging but if the tow vehicle is an EV, Say the new F150, pulling 120-130kwh is well within the capability of a 50amp outlet given an overnight stop.

Overloading the park system is a separate issue.

Of course, if it's a gradual shift, expect a premium charge for people camping with EVs to be gradually implemented or a prohibition against EV charging.


Yah some of that pencils out Valhalla, but I would think we are typical EV RVers and our daily consumption at a campground is probably quite a bit lower than your estimates. Maybe 25 to 30 kw on travelling days and maybe 10 to 15 kw on days we were staying in the campground and touring the area with just the car. Lots of different factors affecting that of course. We had one place offer to upgrade us to a 50 amp site and then an additional surcharge for charging but we were over half on the battery so it just wasn't worth it. I asked if he wanted anything to charge on the 30 amp site and he said no, the surcharge was only if you charge on a 50 amp site. The only request was that we only plug one thing in at a time, EV or RV. That was actually a common request and we always respected it. (I don't have a way to plug in two things anyway).

Here is a graph of the first 31 days of our last big trip. Roughly 7200 kilometers pretty much 90 percent towing (didn't track that) The blue is home charging (there wasn't any as we were on the road), the red is supercharging and the grey is other charging such as driveways at family, campgrounds, touristy places that had free client charging etc. But it will give an idea of why I say that for us a typical charging event at a campground was probably less than 25 to 30 kwh. The Tesla APP is the source of the graph. All funds in Canadian currency.

[image]

Cheers.

valhalla360

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Posted: 07/21/22 10:29am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

Yah some of that pencils out Valhalla, but I would think we are typical EV RVers and our daily consumption at a campground is probably quite a bit lower than your estimates. Maybe 25 to 30 kw on travelling days and maybe 10 to 15 kw on days we were staying in the campground and touring the area with just the car. Lots of different factors affecting that of course. We had one place offer to upgrade us to a 50 amp site and then an additional surcharge for charging but we were over half on the battery so it just wasn't worth it. I asked if he wanted anything to charge on the 30 amp site and he said no, the surcharge was only if you charge on a 50 amp site. The only request was that we only plug one thing in at a time, EV or RV. That was actually a common request and we always respected it. (I don't have a way to plug in two things anyway).

Here is a graph of the first 31 days of our last big trip. Roughly 7200 kilometers pretty much 90 percent towing (didn't track that) The blue is home charging (there wasn't any as we were on the road), the red is supercharging and the grey is other charging such as driveways at family, campgrounds, touristy places that had free client charging etc. But it will give an idea of why I say that for us a typical charging event at a campground was probably less than 25 to 30 kwh. The Tesla APP is the source of the graph. All funds in Canadian currency.

[image]

Cheers.


Sounds like you are checking in and making the campground aware of what you are doing. That builds a lot of good will and is the right thing to do. If they tell you not to worry about it, you've done your due diligence but as mentioned, when it's one nights charging per week, it's really not worth them bothering with it (50amp sites are typically a few dollars more EV or no EV).

Looks like around 750kwh (34%) was at campgrounds for the month. Assuming the Canadian average price of $0.174/kwh, that's around $145 worth of electricity that will wind up on the campgrounds electric bill.

Reisender

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Posted: 07/21/22 10:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Yah some of that pencils out Valhalla, but I would think we are typical EV RVers and our daily consumption at a campground is probably quite a bit lower than your estimates. Maybe 25 to 30 kw on travelling days and maybe 10 to 15 kw on days we were staying in the campground and touring the area with just the car. Lots of different factors affecting that of course. We had one place offer to upgrade us to a 50 amp site and then an additional surcharge for charging but we were over half on the battery so it just wasn't worth it. I asked if he wanted anything to charge on the 30 amp site and he said no, the surcharge was only if you charge on a 50 amp site. The only request was that we only plug one thing in at a time, EV or RV. That was actually a common request and we always respected it. (I don't have a way to plug in two things anyway).

Here is a graph of the first 31 days of our last big trip. Roughly 7200 kilometers pretty much 90 percent towing (didn't track that) The blue is home charging (there wasn't any as we were on the road), the red is supercharging and the grey is other charging such as driveways at family, campgrounds, touristy places that had free client charging etc. But it will give an idea of why I say that for us a typical charging event at a campground was probably less than 25 to 30 kwh. The Tesla APP is the source of the graph. All funds in Canadian currency.

[image]

Cheers.


Sounds like you are checking in and making the campground aware of what you are doing. That builds a lot of good will and is the right thing to do. If they tell you not to worry about it, you've done your due diligence but as mentioned, when it's one nights charging per week, it's really not worth them bothering with it (50amp sites are typically a few dollars more EV or no EV).

Looks like around 750kwh (34%) was at campgrounds for the month. Assuming the Canadian average price of $0.174/kwh, that's around $145 worth of electricity that will wind up on the campgrounds electric bill.


Yah we always try and check just in case.

So yah, the 34 percent was all free but probably half of that was driveway camping at relatives and even some freebee touristy charging. Some tourist areas have free L2 charging for visitors. Usually at 6 to 8 kW rate.

And remember, if the EV is plugged in the RV wasn’t. Essentially we used more propane as a result. Really the economics didn’t play a role in the decision as I doubt the propane was much cheaper. What influences the decision to charge at the campground isi convenience. So, let’s say one pulls in with half a battery, it’s nice to be able to top up for the next day so one doesn’t need to plan a supercharge. More of a nice to have than need to have but it was a factor.

Of course we tow with an SUV. The economics and dynamics of EV trucks with batteries twice as big will be different. Should be interesting. I still say a surcharge is viable and a possible revenue source for the campground. People are willing to pay for convenience. And I think the “one thing plugged in at a time” rule will become an important rule to make it all work. Otherwise wait for the supercharger (or non tesla equivalent).

Jmho.

* This post was edited 07/21/22 11:06am by Reisender *

JaxDad

Greater Toronto Area

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Posted: 07/21/22 04:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

shelbyfv wrote:

Just for fun, check out this rant on that "other" site.


I gave up on that site in its entirety quite a while back after a particularly nasty series of exchanges with a slanderous bigot with a HUGE chip on his shoulder. Despite numerous reports, by numerous users, it continued on for several days.

Then I got a PM from another user informing me that the culprit was in fact a moderator on that site…….

Reading that PM was the last time I was on that site.

shelbyfv

TN

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Posted: 07/21/22 05:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Yep, the mods are part of the problem there, for sure. I began looking at it when I was interested in Class Bs. That enthusiasm has dissipated so mostly I just check it for entertaining train wrecks like the link.

StirCrazy

Kamloops, BC, Canada

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Posted: 07/21/22 05:55pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

My issue has always been the tent taking the 45' driveway and I get stuck with nothing because I don't fit in the other 20' spaces.
At least the electric is getting used. I will mosey on down the road now to the next place. RV still has wheels.
More than any of this is seeing half the campsites empty due to no shows and no reservations available.
Besides it could never be stealing if the EV pays for the site.


thats more of an issue of campgrounds not building tent spicific sites and also not enforcing the rules. I used to run a couple and we had so many dedicated tent cites with power, then truck camper/van sites, medium and large (not pull throughts at that time though) what we did if a tenter reserved a site it had to be a tent site and same for medium lenght and large, but if you showed up friday with no reservation and a tent, if we didn't have a tent site open we would look to the next higher site and so on if that wasnt available. so yes if you are showing up out of the blue looking for a 40 foot site you may not get one because a tenter showed up out of the blue before you and that was the last site we had open.

never had to deal with ev's back then, but if some one was taking power from an unoccupied space instead of there own they would be given a warning the first time then probably evicted the second time. they have power at there own site, but then again if they came and asked first and removed it when some one else showed up I am not sure if I would have had an issue with it. its a weird area.


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