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wanderingaimlessly

Buggs Island lake

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Posted: 07/21/22 05:39pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

A group is apparently working on a trailer that can make up for some of the shortcomings of the Electric trucks.
Lightship

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austinjenna

Columbus, Ohio

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Posted: 07/22/22 04:03am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Its just a gimmick in my opinion. Even if it does finally get built it will be way overpriced.



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QCMan

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Posted: 07/22/22 07:07am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite. Granted, you may now be able to go 150 miles between charges instead of 90 miles with just the tow vehicle but now you need to rent two campsites to charge them. Electric vehicles are in the future but current technology is being forced to do something it is not advanced enough to do.


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Reisender

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Posted: 07/22/22 07:31am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

QCMan wrote:

This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite. Granted, you may now be able to go 150 miles between charges instead of 90 miles with just the tow vehicle but now you need to rent two campsites to charge them. Electric vehicles are in the future but current technology is being forced to do something it is not advanced enough to do.


Charging at the campsite is nice but not necessary. Lots of DC fast charging out there and more all the time. We top up when we can at sites but rarely suck up more than 25 to 30 kwh overnight as we are always on 30 amp sites. I suppose one could rent a 50 amp site and charge more. I suppose it also depends on the campgrounds charging policy. Surcharges etc.

Should be interesting though. I wonder if future pull thru sites at DC fast charging will be able to charge two vehicles at a time. It would make for a quick charging session essentially doubling the charge rate.

Gdetrailer

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Posted: 07/22/22 08:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:

QCMan wrote:

This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite. Granted, you may now be able to go 150 miles between charges instead of 90 miles with just the tow vehicle but now you need to rent two campsites to charge them. Electric vehicles are in the future but current technology is being forced to do something it is not advanced enough to do.


Charging at the campsite is nice but not necessary. Lots of DC fast charging out there and more all the time. We top up when we can at sites but rarely suck up more than 25 to 30 kwh overnight as we are always on 30 amp sites. I suppose one could rent a 50 amp site and charge more. I suppose it also depends on the campgrounds charging policy. Surcharges etc.

Should be interesting though. I wonder if future pull thru sites at DC fast charging will be able to charge two vehicles at a time. It would make for a quick charging session essentially doubling the charge rate.


Once again, you are comparing "apples to oranges". What you get from your small scale EV/trailer combination is vastly different than the reality of what happens when the vehicle and trailer are scaled up to real world sizes and usage.

I would recommend that you take a look at one of the first real world tests of a Ford F150 lightning with a 6K trailer in tow..

HERE

The video is a good real world comparison but does have several shameless plugs for their youtube channel sponsors you can forward through.

Cliffs notes version of the video..

F150 lightning (EV) towing vs GMC Sierra (Gas) towing

Setup-

Both towing exact same towing 6K lb trailer at the same time on same route, speeds and conditions.

Both battery and fuel tank are filled to 100%

GMC has 24 gallon tank

Lightning 282 miles non towing range with full charge, display estimated 160 miles towing the trailer selected with full charge.

Ultimately had to cut trip severely short due to less range than originally estimated and no charging stations close enough on their route that they could make it to and had to turn around and backtrack to the nearest charger they could find. Vehicle power (acceleration performance) dropped to 90% at 9% battery left. Drove only 85.9 miles from 100% to 9% battery. Took 45 minutes to recharge from 9% to 75% or so battery charge (but hey, they guy did get to eat a takeout “chicken dinner”..

GMC drove 155.8 mile 65 miles remaining using $5.39 Premium fuel per gallon took 17.371 gallons at $93.79, total fill up took only a few minutes. 8.9 MPG and was able to complete the full trip without needing to refill (wow, that thing is a fuel hog for a ½ ton, I just averaged 10.1 MPG overall on a 1600 mile round trip towing a TT loaded to 6500 lbs with my 2020 F250 with 6.2 engine).

Lightning charge cost $27 for the first charge, had to stop on the way back to recharge again since they did not wait for a 100% charge. They did not disclose total electric cost at the end of the video, but since they had to stop and recharge on the way back one can assume they spent close to another $27 for a total trip cost of $72.90 and spent a whopping 1.5 hrs sitting around waiting for the battery to charge.

As far as recharge cost being slightly lower, remember, there is no road fuel taxes on electricity, for now, so as reality sinks in, using a heavy EV truck towing realworld 6K trailer isn't going to save you money.

At 85.9 mile range I couldn't even get to any of the borders of my state without the need to recharge at least once and the whole way across my state would require at least three recharges [emoticon]

The same guys that did this video are currently attempting an adventure to northern Alaska with a super light weight pop up camping shell plus they will have a "support" hybrid F150 to charge the Lightning just in case (I suspect they WILL need it)..

Does it mean EV is wrong?

No.

But with current technology it is not scaling up to what the average user will want or need (full sized vehicles with real full size loads)..

Reisender

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Posted: 07/22/22 08:57am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

Reisender wrote:

QCMan wrote:

This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite. Granted, you may now be able to go 150 miles between charges instead of 90 miles with just the tow vehicle but now you need to rent two campsites to charge them. Electric vehicles are in the future but current technology is being forced to do something it is not advanced enough to do.


Charging at the campsite is nice but not necessary. Lots of DC fast charging out there and more all the time. We top up when we can at sites but rarely suck up more than 25 to 30 kwh overnight as we are always on 30 amp sites. I suppose one could rent a 50 amp site and charge more. I suppose it also depends on the campgrounds charging policy. Surcharges etc.

Should be interesting though. I wonder if future pull thru sites at DC fast charging will be able to charge two vehicles at a time. It would make for a quick charging session essentially doubling the charge rate.


Once again, you are comparing "apples to oranges". What you get from your small scale EV/trailer combination is vastly different than the reality of what happens when the vehicle and trailer are scaled up to real world sizes and usage.

I would recommend that you take a look at one of the first real world tests of a Ford F150 lightning with a 6K trailer in tow..

HERE

The video is a good real world comparison but does have several shameless plugs for their youtube channel sponsors you can forward through.

Cliffs notes version of the video..

F150 lightning (EV) towing vs GMC Sierra (Gas) towing

Setup-

Both towing exact same towing 6K lb trailer at the same time on same route, speeds and conditions.

Both battery and fuel tank are filled to 100%

GMC has 24 gallon tank

Lightning 282 miles non towing range with full charge, display estimated 160 miles towing the trailer selected with full charge.

Ultimately had to cut trip severely short due to less range than originally estimated and no charging stations close enough on their route that they could make it to and had to turn around and backtrack to the nearest charger they could find. Vehicle power (acceleration performance) dropped to 90% at 9% battery left. Drove only 85.9 miles from 100% to 9% battery. Took 45 minutes to recharge from 9% to 75% or so battery charge (but hey, they guy did get to eat a takeout “chicken dinner”..

GMC drove 155.8 mile 65 miles remaining using $5.39 Premium fuel per gallon took 17.371 gallons at $93.79, total fill up took only a few minutes. 8.9 MPG and was able to complete the full trip without needing to refill (wow, that thing is a fuel hog for a ½ ton, I just averaged 10.1 MPG overall on a 1600 mile round trip towing a TT loaded to 6500 lbs with my 2020 F250 with 6.2 engine).

Lightning charge cost $27 for the first charge, had to stop on the way back to recharge again since they did not wait for a 100% charge. They did not disclose total electric cost at the end of the video, but since they had to stop and recharge on the way back one can assume they spent close to another $27 for a total trip cost of $72.90 and spent a whopping 1.5 hrs sitting around waiting for the battery to charge.

As far as recharge cost being slightly lower, remember, there is no road fuel taxes on electricity, for now, so as reality sinks in, using a heavy EV truck towing realworld 6K trailer isn't going to save you money.

At 85.9 mile range I couldn't even get to any of the borders of my state without the need to recharge at least once and the whole way across my state would require at least three recharges [emoticon]

The same guys that did this video are currently attempting an adventure to northern Alaska with a super light weight pop up camping shell plus they will have a "support" hybrid F150 to charge the Lightning just in case (I suspect they WILL need it)..

Does it mean EV is wrong?

No.

But with current technology it is not scaling up to what the average user will want or need (full sized vehicles with real full size loads)..


Yah for sure. I was referring more to the nice to have verses need to have campground charging. It’s handy for sure and we do when we can.

Cheer.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 07/22/22 09:21am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Noooo, not again!
Dinos vs Electrons is finally not topping the charts anymore. And the sequel is out already?


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time2roll

Southern California

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Posted: 07/22/22 09:26am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

QCMan wrote:

This begs the question of how you charge both at one campsite. Granted, you may now be able to go 150 miles between charges instead of 90 miles with just the tow vehicle but now you need to rent two campsites to charge them. Electric vehicles are in the future but current technology is being forced to do something it is not advanced enough to do.
Charging both is simple as long as there is enough time.
The only issue is arriving depleted and expecting an overnight charge to roll out the next morning. In this case the user would know in advance that a public L3 charging spot will be needed soon once out on the road.

Staying several days? No issue.


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Gdetrailer

PA

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Posted: 07/22/22 09:32am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Reisender wrote:


Yah for sure. I was referring more to the nice to have verses need to have campground charging. It’s handy for sure and we do when we can.

Cheer.


The problem is scale.

Small scale like your setup it can be made to work somewhat.

Scale it up 3x or 4x and now it doesn't. Larger loads require larger amounts of energy, larger amounts of energy means shorter distance and/or larger storage batteries.

Larger storage batteries means more weight which reduces range and takes considerably more time to recharge.

At the end of the day, you will find that most RV'rs will plan to fully recharge their EV trucks at the campground overnight for free instead of seeking out a charging station that they will have to pay for and wait an hr for the charge.

EV boondockers would most likely have to drag around a much bigger gen plus fuel just to be able to extract themselves from a deep outback camping trip than what a Honda 2000i could provide..

Reisender

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Posted: 07/22/22 09:43am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

Reisender wrote:


Yah for sure. I was referring more to the nice to have verses need to have campground charging. It’s handy for sure and we do when we can.

Cheer.


The problem is scale.

Small scale like your setup it can be made to work somewhat.

Scale it up 3x or 4x and now it doesn't. Larger loads require larger amounts of energy, larger amounts of energy means shorter distance and/or larger storage batteries.

Larger storage batteries means more weight which reduces range and takes considerably more time to recharge.

At the end of the day, you will find that most RV'rs will plan to fully recharge their EV trucks at the campground overnight for free instead of seeking out a charging station that they will have to pay for and wait an hr for the charge.

EV boondockers would most likely have to drag around a much bigger gen plus fuel just to be able to extract themselves from a deep outback camping trip than what a Honda 2000i could provide..


Who knows. All above my pay grade as I haven’t looked into any of the EV trucks.

There are thousands of EV RVers out there though and we have talked to many. Generally speaking I would say that most are happy to pay a charging surcharge at a campground as long as it has value for convenience. It really hasn’t come up for us yet. We have only hit one campground where they had a 10 dollar charging surcharge and only if we rented a 50 amp site. That night we were around half on the battery so it didn’t make sense. The owner was fine with us charging on a 30 amp site for 10 or 12 hours overnight. Under the right conditions we would certainly pay a surcharge.

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