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jaycocreek

Idaho

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Joined: 12/28/2013

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Posted: 08/22/22 10:39am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Boon Docker wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol


You get a 600 watt solar system for approx $600 US. Add in $400 for batteries. That works out to $1000


For one battery?

Then there is the controller/inverter/wiring etc...No free lunch doing it yourself..


Lance 9.6
400 watts solar mounted/200 watts portable
500ah Lifep04

Gdetrailer

PA

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Joined: 01/05/2007

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Posted: 08/22/22 10:41am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

relaxin wrote:

hello fellow campers.
with some parks up here now banning generators, some in designated areas and some outright, and the fact that getting a electric serviced site is getting harder and harder during peak season, has anyone tried these new power supplies
back up power
theres this company and another

other company

keep in mind prices are in CA dollars, they are probably 1/4 the price in the US.

Just wondering if this is a possible solution to running a generator, it may not run the A/C very long but up here we can get by without that and the microwave, and run the fridge on propane, just need the lights and electronics pumps, fans and maybe some music for a 3 day weekend. perhaps the tv for a movie on a rainy day.

if you have one let me know how it works for you.


These are nothing more than an expensive battery with inverter in a box.

Calling them a "generator" is laughable at best as when you discharge them you must eventually recharge them. Each time you discharge/recharge the batteries lose capacity.

Storing them can also be problematic at best, batteries of any type must be stored properly, Lithium batteries are no exception to this. Failing to store properly will result in a unusable battery in short order.

BATTERY UNIVERSITY says this..

Battery SoC is reflected in OCV. Lithium manganese oxide reads 3.82V at 40% SoC (25°C), and about 3.70V at 30% (shipping requirement). Temperature and previous charge and discharge activities affect the reading. Allow the battery to rest for 90 minutes before taking the reading.

Li-ion cannot dip below 2V/cell for any length of time. Copper shunts form inside the cells that can lead to elevated self-discharge or a partial electrical short. (See BU-802b: Elevated Self-discharge) If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion batteries that have been under stress may function normally but are more sensitive to mechanical abuse. Liability for incorrect handling should go to the user and not the battery manufacturer."

Tektronix has a good guide on Lithium battery maintenance and storage.. HERE

"Lithium-Ion Battery Maintenance Guidelines
Lithium-Ion rechargeable batteries require routine maintenance and care in their use and handling. Read and follow the guidelines in this document to safely use Lithium-Ion batteries and achieve the maximum battery life span.

Overview

Do not leave batteries unused for extended periods of time, either in the product or in storage. When a battery has been unused for 6 months, check the charge status and charge or dispose of the battery as appropriate.

The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again. Use a two to three year life expectancy for batteries that do not run through complete
charge cycles.

Rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries have a limited life and will gradually lose their capacity to hold a charge. This loss of capacity (aging) is irreversible. As the battery loses capacity, the length of time it will power the product (run time) decreases.

Lithium-Ion batteries continue to slowly discharge (self-discharge) when not in use or while in storage. Routinely check the battery’s charge status. The product user manual typically includes information on how to check battery status, as well as battery charging instructions"


To put this a bit more into perspective, batteries of any type whether being used or being stored lose capacity and life.

Contrast tho generators which as long as you check and change the oil at recommended intervals and you do not leave gas sit in the carb while stored can be used and stored for many, many yrs without loss in capacity..

Come back in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs, 20 yrs and give a report on how well your purchase of that "power station" or "noiseless generator" has gone..

So far, my noisy generators have given me 20+ yrs of service and I have even added a 30+ yr old gen to my stock which sat abused with water in the fuel tank for so long that the tank was loaded with rust right up to the top of the tank.. Cleaned the rust out of tank and carb added some fresh gas and engine came to life after two pulls..

Would love to see a 30yr old Lithium based power pack with inverter come back to life with full capacity after being stored for 30yrs with no periodic charges..

valhalla360

No paticular place.

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Joined: 08/19/2009

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Posted: 08/22/22 10:59am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

Boon Docker wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol


You get a 600 watt solar system for approx $600 US. Add in $400 for batteries. That works out to $1000


For one battery?

Then there is the controller/inverter/wiring etc...No free lunch doing it yourself..


OK, so $1500-2000 if you add a charge controller and 3000w inverter along with some wiring. Let's call it $2500 total if you pay someone to do the install.

Vs...the first link was to a $7400 CAD (~$5700 USD) unit that doesn't have solar panels included (nor there installation which is the biggest part of the install cost).

Yeah, it's a pricey approach that makes little sense.


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


time2roll

Southern California

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Joined: 03/21/2005

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Posted: 08/22/22 11:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

Would love to see a 30yr old Lithium based power pack with inverter come back to life with full capacity after being stored for 30yrs with no periodic charges..
Yes for a museum piece that generator can sit 30+ years and be good to go.
Used regularly more will be spent on fuel and maintenance than the cost to replace the battery when due.


2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
675w Solar pictures back up

jaycocreek

Idaho

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Joined: 12/28/2013

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Posted: 08/22/22 11:10am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

he first link was to a $7400 CAD (~$5700 USD) unit that doesn't have solar panels included (nor there installation which is the biggest part of the install cost).


I couldn't agree more on the large power stations..I'm surprised they sell as many as they do...Just saying any solar setup is expensive..Quality inverters like Samlex can run around $800 and larger mppt controllers are not cheap either..And it goes on and on..

I'm into way more than I planned and it just keeps getting worse..lol

Itinerant1

Itinerant

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Joined: 05/23/2017

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Posted: 08/22/22 11:42am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Gdetrailer wrote:

relaxin wrote:

hello fellow campers.
with some parks up here now banning generators, some in designated areas and some outright, and the fact that getting a electric serviced site is getting harder and harder during peak season, has anyone tried these new power supplies
back up power
theres this company and another

other company

keep in mind prices are in CA dollars, they are probably 1/4 the price in the US.

Just wondering if this is a possible solution to running a generator, it may not run the A/C very long but up here we can get by without that and the microwave, and run the fridge on propane, just need the lights and electronics pumps, fans and maybe some music for a 3 day weekend. perhaps the tv for a movie on a rainy day.

if you have one let me know how it works for you.


These are nothing more than an expensive battery with inverter in a box.

Calling them a "generator" is laughable at best as when you discharge them you must eventually recharge them. Each time you discharge/recharge the batteries lose capacity.

Storing them can also be problematic at best, batteries of any type must be stored properly, Lithium batteries are no exception to this. Failing to store properly will result in a unusable battery in short order.

BATTERY UNIVERSITY says this..

Battery SoC is reflected in OCV. Lithium manganese oxide reads 3.82V at 40% SoC (25°C), and about 3.70V at 30% (shipping requirement). Temperature and previous charge and discharge activities affect the reading. Allow the battery to rest for 90 minutes before taking the reading.

Li-ion cannot dip below 2V/cell for any length of time. Copper shunts form inside the cells that can lead to elevated self-discharge or a partial electrical short. (See BU-802b: Elevated Self-discharge) If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion batteries that have been under stress may function normally but are more sensitive to mechanical abuse. Liability for incorrect handling should go to the user and not the battery manufacturer."

Tektronix has a good guide on Lithium battery maintenance and storage.. HERE

"Lithium-Ion Battery Maintenance Guidelines
Lithium-Ion rechargeable batteries require routine maintenance and care in their use and handling. Read and follow the guidelines in this document to safely use Lithium-Ion batteries and achieve the maximum battery life span.

Overview

Do not leave batteries unused for extended periods of time, either in the product or in storage. When a battery has been unused for 6 months, check the charge status and charge or dispose of the battery as appropriate.

The typical estimated life of a Lithium-Ion battery is about two to three years or 300 to 500 charge cycles, whichever occurs first. One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again. Use a two to three year life expectancy for batteries that do not run through complete
charge cycles.

Rechargeable Lithium-Ion batteries have a limited life and will gradually lose their capacity to hold a charge. This loss of capacity (aging) is irreversible. As the battery loses capacity, the length of time it will power the product (run time) decreases.

Lithium-Ion batteries continue to slowly discharge (self-discharge) when not in use or while in storage. Routinely check the battery’s charge status. The product user manual typically includes information on how to check battery status, as well as battery charging instructions"


To put this a bit more into perspective, batteries of any type whether being used or being stored lose capacity and life.

Contrast tho generators which as long as you check and change the oil at recommended intervals and you do not leave gas sit in the carb while stored can be used and stored for many, many yrs without loss in capacity..

Come back in 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 15 yrs, 20 yrs and give a report on how well your purchase of that "power station" or "noiseless generator" has gone..

So far, my noisy generators have given me 20+ yrs of service and I have even added a 30+ yr old gen to my stock which sat abused with water in the fuel tank for so long that the tank was loaded with rust right up to the top of the tank.. Cleaned the rust out of tank and carb added some fresh gas and engine came to life after two pulls..

Would love to see a 30yr old Lithium based power pack with inverter come back to life with full capacity after being stored for 30yrs with no periodic charges..


If your going to quote and use it like the gospel try staying in the same chemistry. Li-Colbate is not LiFePO4 which is used in these battery/ inverter devices and what most are using in the rvs.

Next will be Lifepo4 isn't safe because Li starts fire on planes.


12v 500ah, 20 cells_ 4s5p (GBS LFMP battery system). 8 CTI 160 watt panels (1,280 watts)2s4p,Panels mounted flat. Magnum PT100 SCC, Magnum 3012 hybrid inverter, ME-ARC 50. Installed 4/2016 been on 24/7/365, daily 35-45% DOD 2,100+ partial cycles.

Boon Docker

Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta

Senior Member

Joined: 10/30/2015

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Posted: 08/22/22 11:45am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

Boon Docker wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol


You get a 600 watt solar system for approx $600 US. Add in $400 for batteries. That works out to $1000


For one battery?

Then there is the controller/inverter/wiring etc...No free lunch doing it yourself..


600 Watt Solar System

No need for lithium batteries, GC2 work just fine.

time2roll

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 03/21/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 08/22/22 11:47am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol
How many solar generators would it take to match 675w solar and 1000 Ah?

jaycocreek

Idaho

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Joined: 12/28/2013

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Posted: 08/22/22 12:06pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

time2roll wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol
How many solar generators would it take to match 675w solar and 1000 Ah?


12,800 watt hours devided by whatever the power station is rated for..lol..Solar wise,whatever the max input or said power station is...

Did I pass the quiz..[emoticon]

time2roll

Southern California

Senior Member

Joined: 03/21/2005

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Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 08/22/22 12:21pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

jaycocreek wrote:

time2roll wrote:

jaycocreek wrote:

Everyone saying how over priced they are should chime in with there actual cost for there system that they use....There not cheap to do it right..

Lol
How many solar generators would it take to match 675w solar and 1000 Ah?


12,800 watt hours devided by whatever the power station is rated for..lol..Solar wise,whatever the max input or said power station is...

Did I pass the quiz..[emoticon]
Gives me at least $30,000 budget to install my own.
Mine probably cost $5000. Might be double if pro installed.

The point was the "generators" are more expensive.

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