 |
|
|
|
Mike134
Elgin, IL
Senior Member
Joined: 11/20/2019
View Profile
 Offline
|
nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbageblt2ski wrote:mkirsch wrote:That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit."
Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes.
Actually, not that it will happen to most of us......
Ford "could" deny warranty issues to you if towing over 1500 lbs of unbraked trailer caused an item to brake, not last as long etc. who will tell them?
Or,
if you did say rear end someone, they have another item to check off against you in a civil court case.
Or
If you are pulled over by an LEO, the do a perverbial "field test" of your braking ability. nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbageTypically on a level at 10-20 mph stopping within X feet. You don't meet test requirements. You get a red tag, can't move vehicle with trailer attached, assuming TV alone meets test requirement. Trailer get hauled off the road to a shop to get repaired. Then can not leave shop until an inspection is done.
These different legal or recommendations no matter what we are doing, being it hauling, towing, riding a bike, flying, boating etc. If you look at the issue one way, you're fine, but look at it from a different direction, assuming you're in the center of a circle, 360 ways to look at the issue, 359 of those ways can get you into major trouble, to one of the 360 ways getting you in trouble.
Like ALL things in life, look at the issue from more than one direction.
Yes, I've posted legal ways person is fine, but I also point out, not safe, or my recommendation etc at times too.
Marty See comments in red
2019 F150 4X4 1903 payload
2018 Adventurer 21RBS 7700 GVWR.
|
JRscooby
Indepmo
Senior Member
Joined: 06/10/2019
View Profile
Offline
|
Mike134 wrote: nobody on any forum has seen a person pulled over for a weight check total internet rumor garbage
I can't say I have seen a RV stopped for overweight. OTOH, mid '80s Lexington Mo. In court waiting my turn to show I had changed plates, was no longer running out of bounds, I watched 4 people that where ticketed overweight pickup/boat be ordered to pay fines.
Late '90s, county court in Camron Mo, waiting for my lawyer to settle overload 2 men where talking about getting stopped by paddy wagon with their travel trailers, getting overload tickets. (At the time CMV enforcement used vans)
Now does it happen often? No, but it can. But as to the trailer brake issue; I watched a van pulling a trailer slide head-on into my truck. Of course the first thing that happened was they had to make sure my truck setting in left turn lane was not overloaded. But I kept pointing at the light cord/adapter. When I got out the disposable camera started taking pictures LEO made a mark on report. I had no issue collecting damages, don't know how the driver came out on his reckless driving charge.
|
blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
Moderator
Joined: 03/15/2001
View Profile
 Online
|
Thank you Scooby
I noted at the beginning of my comments, it may not happen often. But I do know of a few CVEO'S that like to pull over type A motor homes with Dinghy's, the dinghy vehicles have not been hooked up to use brakes, the only way to leave the side of the road is to disconnect the two units. AFTER getting a moving violation ticket, due to no brakes operating on the towed vehicle.
Does it happen often, probably not, but it can happen! Operators choice on the gamble
Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer
|
Thermoguy
Graham, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/04/2017
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Just for anyone that thinks there vehicle can't stop the trailer behind them. If you own a GM (maybe others, I have a chev so not sure of the others) if you get the dreaded steering stabilizer warning or check trailer wiring warning, the first thing you lose is your trailer brakes. The system just stops working if you get those warnings. I have driven half way across the state with that warning popping on and off towing a 12000 lb 5th wheel. Yes, my brakes had to work harder, but I stopped in aprox the same distance with or without. One can argue, larger truck, larger brakes, but I didn't have an issue stopping. I recently towed a medium sized Uhaul with my Explorer, also no brakes. It wasn't loaded too heavy, but never thought about the trailer brakes or stopping. Small trailer, small tow vehicle, no issues.
|
JIMNLIN
Oklahoma
Senior Member
Joined: 09/14/2003
View Profile
|
OP wrote:With these low limits in mind, it would be interesting to start paying attention to all the F150s, towing 2000”-4000 pound trailer around and I bet most of them won’t have trailer brakes. I don’t say that to say it’s right or to justify anything I just think it’s the reality of how uninformed people are given all the hype the manufacturers place around the top rated tow numbers with no Asterix to prompt people to dig deeper. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.
Not all F150 same year models have the same braking performance/specs.
Looking at 2022 Fleet Ford brake specs shows two different braking systems (rotor dia/rotor thickness/sweep area) on the various F150 models... which we can't tell just by looking.
And of course older year model F150 brake systems may not be as robust as newer gen models.
I'm always surprised how quick the wifes '16 1500 chevy crew cab 4wd stops my 2540 lb empty 10k car hauler without the trailers brakes plugged in
JMO but our LDT mfg's may recommend a certain limit on unbraked trailers but I sure wouldn't assume, without knowing that particular trucks brake specs, exceeding that number is a danger.
I started towing in the early '60's. Trailer brakes and especially LDT's have come a long long way in braking performance.
"good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" ............ Will Rogers
'03 2500 QC Dodge/Cummins HO 3.73 6 speed manual Jacobs Westach
'97 Park Avanue 28' 5er 11200 two slides
|
|
|
JRscooby
Indepmo
Senior Member
Joined: 06/10/2019
View Profile
Offline
|
Thermoguy wrote:Just for anyone that thinks there vehicle can't stop the trailer behind them. If you own a GM (maybe others, I have a chev so not sure of the others) if you get the dreaded steering stabilizer warning or check trailer wiring warning, the first thing you lose is your trailer brakes. The system just stops working if you get those warnings. I have driven half way across the state with that warning popping on and off towing a 12000 lb 5th wheel. Yes, my brakes had to work harder, but I stopped in aprox the same distance with or without. One can argue, larger truck, larger brakes, but I didn't have an issue stopping. I recently towed a medium sized Uhaul with my Explorer, also no brakes. It wasn't loaded too heavy, but never thought about the trailer brakes or stopping. Small trailer, small tow vehicle, no issues.
Somebody is missing the point. Put a load in your vehicle up to GVWR, and normal driving you are unlikely to notice issues stopping in the same distance as MT But, and it's a big but, when the kid runs the stop sign on the big wheel, MT will stop in a shorter distance. And when your GCVW is 175% of GVWR, like that heavy trailer, a if the truck in front of you did a panic stop you would eat the pillows.
The idea that somebody would drive halfway across any state shows a lack of judgement.
|
tealboy
orlando, fl
Full Member
Joined: 09/09/2004
View Profile
|
I didn’t mean for this thread to turn into such a long debate, although there are a number of useful responses, so thank you. All of this came from the fact that I was unaware of these very low thresholds and the seemingly conservative approach from the manufacturers. Most of my towing has been 2-3k lb boats and trailers using large full size suvs. In some cases, the cargo inside of the suv might have been another 800 lbs but with published tow ratings of 8400, and a bit of ignorance, I thought I was doing it right. I never had a situation that necessitated emergency braking so I don’t know what would have happened but in all my routine driving under these circumstances, I didn’t have any close calls or problems, and no reason to think I was posing a risk to myself or others. Clearly I was wrong, even after giving myself some wiggle room for manufacturer conservativeness.
Now, I feel fairly educated on the subject and trying to make good decisions, particularly since I am in the market for a new suv. All of this is entirely related to my safety and the safety of others affected by my actions, and the risk of legal consequences. It has nothing to do with warranties, damaging the vehicle, or getting pulled over for a weight inspection since my loads wouldn’t trigger any obvious concerns. We live in a litigious society and at this age I worry about that stuff more, in addition to general safety.
|
Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/06/2013
View Profile
Offline
|
You're still worrying too much. I'm going to presume you have no experience towing. As if you did, you would (should anyway) realize that it is quite easy and not cumbersome to pull a little trailer like you're talking aboot with any newer full size anything.
Another observation. It appears that age also affects one's fear of being sued in extremely unlikely scenarios.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
|
BB_TX
McKinney, Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 04/04/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
Boomerweps wrote:BB_TX wrote:tealboy wrote:…….
…. …….. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.
Where did you find this information? I have looked thru my manuals and cannot find anything addressing this. Not questioning you. Just curious where to find it.
Ford F-150 owner’s manual. For 2019 on page 311, “Separate functioning brake systems are required for safe control of towed vehicles and trailers weighing more than 1500 pounds (680 kg) when loaded”.
NOTE the word REQUIRED, not recommended. There are clear differences between these words, similar to shall and should. Yes, looking at the source material, somebody’s reading comprehension is suspect. This is a manufacturer’s requirement, not a legal one.
This is from the 2022 F150 on-line manual, page 404.
Ford Motor Company recommends separate functioning brake systems for trailers weighing more than 1,500 lb (680 kg) when loaded.
|
valhalla360
No paticular place.
Senior Member
Joined: 08/19/2009
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
Thermoguy wrote: I have driven half way across the state with that warning popping on and off towing a 12000 lb 5th wheel. Yes, my brakes had to work harder, but I stopped in aprox the same distance with or without.
If you stopped in the same distance, you must only be coasting to a stop. I had a braking issue on a 9000lb 5er and it was easily 50% longer to come to a stop.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
