RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tow Vehicles: Tongue weight limits and wdh

RV Blog

  |  

RV Sales

  |  

Campgrounds

  |  

RV Parks

  |  

RV Club

  |  

RV Buyers Guide

  |  

Roadside Assistance

  |  

Extended Service Plan

  |  

RV Travel Assistance

  |  

RV Credit Card

  |  

RV Loans

Open Roads Forum Already a member? Login here.   If not, Register Today!  |  Help

Newest  |  Active  |  Popular  |  RVing FAQ Forum Rules  |  Forum Posting Help and Support  |  Contact  

Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Tongue weight limits and wdh

Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next
Sponsored By:
ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

Senior Member

Joined: 06/22/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 08/26/22 11:53am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

Agreed that the trailer axle weights go up, as does the TV front axle and the truck rear axle weight goes down. But the sum of the three axle weights stays the same That means the tongue weight hasn't changed. Now since many scale weights have a 25 or 50lb increment that may cause a slight difference but it is due to scale resolution.

If the tongue weight changes then that force needs to be accounted for in the force on the TV and trailer axles. If the tongue weight goes down, then the sum of the weight on the other axles must go up to account for it.

Now, if the tongue was nose down w/o wd and now level, there could be a slight decrease in tongue weight due to the trailer attitude which would show up in the weight calculations. But it is going to be minor.


Umm..no

The WDH moves some of the tongue weight back onto the trailer axles.

Nose up or down, doesn't impact the weights enough to notice.


How much did the sum of your TV front axle, rear axle and trailer axle change? that is how much the tongue weight changed. I bet the sum of the weights didn't change by more than 50lbs.

The WD hitch moved weight from the TV rear axle to the trailer and TV front axles.


2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
2004 14' bikehauler with full living quarters
2015.5 Denali 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison
2004.5 Silverado 4x4 CC/SB Duramax/Allison passed on to our Son!


bikendan

Goodyear, Arizona

Senior Member

Joined: 11/21/2005

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 08/26/22 06:38pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

waynefi wrote:

What happens with the tongue weight limit when you are using a weight distributing hitch?

My Tacoma says the the tongue weight limit is 650 lbs. Does that mean that if my trailer has a tongue weight over 650 I need a wdh, or that I shouldn’t pull that trailer even with a wdh?

The function of a wdh is to take weight off the tongue, right? How would you even measure the tongue weight with the wdh in place?

My current trailer has a nominal tongue weight of 380, but that is before water, a second battery, etc.


Your Taco's owners manual towing section should detail how much tongue or trailer weight, will require a WDH.


Dan- Firefighter, Retired">, Shawn- Musician/Entrepreneur">, Zoe- Faithful Golden Retriever(RIP">), 2014 Ford F150 3.5 EcoboostMax Tow pkg, 2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255 w/4pt Equalizer and 5 Mtn. bikes and 2 Road bikes

waynefi

S E Michigan

Full Member

Joined: 06/22/2011

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 08/26/22 08:18pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

bikendan wrote:

waynefi wrote:

What happens with the tongue weight limit when you are using a weight distributing hitch?

My Tacoma says the the tongue weight limit is 650 lbs. Does that mean that if my trailer has a tongue weight over 650 I need a wdh, or that I shouldn’t pull that trailer even with a wdh?

The function of a wdh is to take weight off the tongue, right? How would you even measure the tongue weight with the wdh in place?

My current trailer has a nominal tongue weight of 380, but that is before water, a second battery, etc.


Your Taco's owners manual towing section should detail how much tongue or trailer weight, will require a WDH.


The Taco owner’s manual says I need a wdh for a trailer above 5000 lb, but it doesn’t say what tongue weight it expects for that trailer. My trailer is 3700 empty, but I still use a wdh.


rPod 195
formerly Rockwood MiniLite 1809S
Tacoma V6

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 08/27/22 12:05pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

waynefi wrote:

bikendan wrote:

waynefi wrote:

What happens with the tongue weight limit when you are using a weight distributing hitch?

My Tacoma says the the tongue weight limit is 650 lbs. Does that mean that if my trailer has a tongue weight over 650 I need a wdh, or that I shouldn’t pull that trailer even with a wdh?

The function of a wdh is to take weight off the tongue, right? How would you even measure the tongue weight with the wdh in place?

My current trailer has a nominal tongue weight of 380, but that is before water, a second battery, etc.


Your Taco's owners manual towing section should detail how much tongue or trailer weight, will require a WDH.


The Taco owner’s manual says I need a wdh for a trailer above 5000 lb, but it doesn’t say what tongue weight it expects for that trailer. My trailer is 3700 empty, but I still use a wdh.


Then you’re already wearing the proverbial second pair of underwear as an “insurance policy”. Time to be “ok” with it.
Or think of it another way. If Yoda isn’t worried about their liability enough to have more info or limitations than what you read in your official Toyota owners manual, then you can take solace in the fact that it IS NOT and issue.


2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 08/27/22 01:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

How much did the sum of your TV front axle, rear axle and trailer axle change? that is how much the tongue weight changed. I bet the sum of the weights didn't change by more than 50lbs.

The WD hitch moved weight from the TV rear axle to the trailer and TV front axles.


The total of all axles (truck and trailer) doesn't tell us anything about tongue weight.

The tongue weight is the weight of the trailer minus the weight on the trailer axles.

Alternatively, you can also do it by comparing the truck axle weights by themselves vs the truck axle weights with the trailer attached. The difference is tongue weight.

With the WDH attached, more weight is on the trailer. On mine, the CAT scales said it was around 200lb less with the WDH connected vs just the ball by itself (bars were placed on the A-frame so the weight of the bars didn't impact the results).


Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV


ktmrfs

Portland, Oregon

Senior Member

Joined: 06/22/2005

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 08/27/22 10:40pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

How much did the sum of your TV front axle, rear axle and trailer axle change? that is how much the tongue weight changed. I bet the sum of the weights didn't change by more than 50lbs.

The WD hitch moved weight from the TV rear axle to the trailer and TV front axles.


The total of all axles (truck and trailer) doesn't tell us anything about tongue weight.

The tongue weight is the weight of the trailer minus the weight on the trailer axles.

Alternatively, you can also do it by comparing the truck axle weights by themselves vs the truck axle weights with the trailer attached. The difference is tongue weight.

With the WDH attached, more weight is on the trailer. On mine, the CAT scales said it was around 200lb less with the WDH connected vs just the ball by itself (bars were placed on the A-frame so the weight of the bars didn't impact the results).


more weight is on the trailer axles, but less weight is on the TV axles. WD hitch does NOT change tongue weight. All it does is change the axle weight loading of the trailer and TV.


Myth 1: Using a Weight-Distribution Hitch Decreases My Tongue Weight!
This myth is like a cockroach: It’s nasty, dangerous, and hard to kill.

The purpose of a weight-distribution hitch is to restore weight to the front axle that was transferred to the rear axle of your tow vehicle.

In doing so, it transfers some of the hitch weight to the axles of your trailer.

This can be a difficult concept to grasp (believe me, I know!) – but a weight-distribution hitch doesn’t reduce the tongue weight of your camper! It applies a moment (torque) at the connection to reduce the hitch weight seen by your truck.

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

Senior Member

Joined: 05/06/2013

View Profile


Offline
Posted: 08/28/22 10:34am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

^Good explanation, for a topic that has now also gone into the depths of speculation and lack of conceptual understanding.
To add, though, while wdhs are now seeking to be the catch all security blanket for RVers now for however many years. The original concept was and still IS to reduce the effective tongue load or weight on a vehicle that is not sufficiently equipped or rated to handle that static tongue weight.

Agree 100% with what you said, but there will be responses refuting it because, well, rvnet….

mosseater

Dillsburg, PA

Senior Member

Joined: 10/19/2007

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member

Offline
Posted: 08/30/22 05:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

On my sig pic truck (traded) my hitch receiver rating for tongue weight was 800 on the bare ball, and 930 for the WD rating. That was exactly 10% of max towing weight of 9300 lbs. my tongue weight was around 1000 so I began the search for info regarding hitch upgrades. Turned out, the OEM Ford receiver was the same receiver used on all the trucks. Only the sticker changed to reflect the as-build ratings of that particular truck. I think the max tongue weight rating for that year was 1500 lbs. WD. But it was the same unit as mine and all the rest which were rated for less. Logic says it was based on the capbility of the truck more than the receiver itself.


"It`s not important that you know all the answers, it`s only important to know where to get all the answers" Arone Kleamyck
"...An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
Sunset Creek 298 BH


valhalla360

No paticular place.

Senior Member

Joined: 08/19/2009

View Profile



Good Sam RV Club Member


Posted: 08/31/22 09:38am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

ktmrfs wrote:

more weight is on the trailer axles, but less weight is on the TV axles. WD hitch does NOT change tongue weight. All it does is change the axle weight loading of the trailer and TV.

Myth 1: Using a Weight-Distribution Hitch Decreases My Tongue Weight!
This myth is like a cockroach: It’s nasty, dangerous, and hard to kill.

The purpose of a weight-distribution hitch is to restore weight to the front axle that was transferred to the rear axle of your tow vehicle.

In doing so, it transfers some of the hitch weight to the axles of your trailer.

This can be a difficult concept to grasp (believe me, I know!) – but a weight-distribution hitch doesn’t reduce the tongue weight of your camper! It applies a moment (torque) at the connection to reduce the hitch weight seen by your truck.


I agree, the point is to move weight back onto the steering axle and it does create a moment arm at the hitch.

But if it's taking weight off the truck and putting it on the trailer axles, by definition, it's reducing the hitch weight.

So far you have shown no "myth".

Huntindog

Phoenix AZ

Senior Member

Joined: 04/08/2002

View Profile



Posted: 08/31/22 10:16am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

more weight is on the trailer axles, but less weight is on the TV axles. WD hitch does NOT change tongue weight. All it does is change the axle weight loading of the trailer and TV.

Myth 1: Using a Weight-Distribution Hitch Decreases My Tongue Weight!
This myth is like a cockroach: It’s nasty, dangerous, and hard to kill.

The purpose of a weight-distribution hitch is to restore weight to the front axle that was transferred to the rear axle of your tow vehicle.

In doing so, it transfers some of the hitch weight to the axles of your trailer.

This can be a difficult concept to grasp (believe me, I know!) – but a weight-distribution hitch doesn’t reduce the tongue weight of your camper! It applies a moment (torque) at the connection to reduce the hitch weight seen by your truck.


I agree, the point is to move weight back onto the steering axle and it does create a moment arm at the hitch.

But if it's taking weight off the truck and putting it on the trailer axles, by definition, it's reducing the hitch weight.

So far you have shown no "myth".
Try to imagine a tiny scale that would fit between the top of the ball and the coupler. What it would measure is the actual TW.... And that scale would read the same no matter what is done with WD.


Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
17.5LRH commercial tires
1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountryC CD/A 4X4 DRW



Reply to Topic  |  Subscribe  |  Print Topic  |  Post New Topic  | 
Page of 5  
Prev  |  Next

Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > Tongue weight limits and wdh
Search:   Advanced Search

Search only in Tow Vehicles


New posts No new posts
Closed, new posts Closed, no new posts
Moved, new posts Moved, no new posts

Adjust text size:




© 2022 CWI, Inc. © 2022 Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All Rights Reserved.