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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Lantley wrote:I imagine the cowboys said the same thing concerning horses when the model T was introduced. I'm sure not everyone believed in the flying contraption the Wright brothers were working on.
To think EV won't impact trucking and that the diesel engine is the end all platform is a bit closed minded don't you think?
No one is saying that. Not even Peeps.
Where it all falls apart is those (I’m guilty of the same) who are realists that also understand the applications and real world limitations of this new technology begin to counter the baseless “dreamers” as I call them, who’s level of understanding doesn’t extend past “Fossil fuel bad…I save world by believing in something unconditionally without any thought or realization of the limitations.”
From there it falls apart when the dreamers can’t be cognizant enough to recognize the factors or limitations behind their claims or arguments.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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Tyler0215 wrote:No one has ever said that EV's are the answer to all needs. The ICE and Diesel will never dissappear in our lifetimes no matter how muck the greenies want them to. It took 40 years for the ICE to replace the horse, the change to EV's will not come any quicker. Nothing to debate folks.
None of us no the time frame but the change is coming. Interestingly enough several manufacturesrs have proclimed they will cease productin of the ICE within the next 20 years
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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valhalla360 wrote:Lantley wrote:I'm not an over the top EV guy. But I am open minded enough to understand one day I maybe towing with an EV vs. claiming that EV towing is an impossible pipe dream.
I've already seen enough game changing technology inm my lifetime to understand change can happen quickly.
Wasn't too long ago the "Dick Tracy" talking watch was far fetched, now it is reality.
When it comes to EV, I don't own a Tesla or have any plans to buy one anytime soon. However I drove a friends Tesla and that experience changed my thoughts on EV. The Tesla is game changin g technology.
The idea of a car withincredible performance with no pistons,crankshaft,lifters or combustion of any sort is mind boggling and transformative.
Experience a Tesla for yourself and your opinion on EV and EV technology will change forever.
If you have not experienced a Tesla,you are thinking old school technology and you really can't grasp what all the EV fuss is about.
However once you exerience Tesla technology you will begin to understand what the fuss is all about.
I'm not suggesting you will run out and buy a Tesla or suddenly become a die hard Musky.
But you will have a much better understanding of what EV technology is about and where it is headed.
Short of a huge breakthrough in battery technology, RVs with similar capabilities are not happening in our lifetime.
"Dick Tracy" was like 80-90 yrs ago. Unless you are 400yrs old, yeah, it was a long time ago.
I had cars without pistons, crankshafts, lifters. Nothing particularly earth shattering about the idea. They were slot cars and solved the energy storage issue by electrifying the track. Electrifying our roadway system is an expensive proposition but technologically it does work.
Performance is a red herring. Modern 4 banger cars almost never use the full performance capability anyway.
Battery Technology is certainly progressing.
To think there will not be significant advancement in batterry technology is very short sited.
While at the Hershey RV show last weekend. There where 4 lithium battery suppliers peddling their products. I don't remember there being any the year prior.
Li batteries are currently changing the way we camp and opening up lots of opportunities to camp off the grid in ways that were not possible just 10 years ago.
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Turtle n Peeps
California
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Lantley wrote:
I'm not an over the top EV guy. But I am open minded enough to understand one day I maybe towing with an EV vs. claiming that EV towing is an impossible pipe dream.
What?![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead") Did you not see the video? This family is towing with their electric truck so I don't understand how anybody can say it's a pipe dream.
The real question is; and always will be, how practical is it for you and me and everybody on this forum.
Is it practical to tow 100 miles and then have to charge for an hour? The answer for "me" is not only a no, but a hell no. I think for the average person on this forum the answer will also be no.
LI batteries are the best of the best we have right now and the energy density is not very good "for me" at all. My wife has to plug her car in every night. I have to plug my phone in every night or every other night which is a total PITA.
People always talk about batteries like they are a new invention which is just not the case. Even LI batteries have been around for over 50 years and they really have not improved much at all.
As far as fast charge rate goes, it's again a trade off. You can really charge a battery very fast......but.....(here comes that trade off) it hurts the battery life. So instead of your battery lasting around 8 years now it will last about 2 or 3 years.
As far as new battery tech that is "just right around the corner" aaaaa it's not looking good. Could it happen? Sure. But if I was a betting person I'm going to say it's not going to happen anytime soon if ever.
I remember many years ago on this very forum people were saying we should go to alcohol as a fuel. I said it was a bad idea and it will never "be practicable". It wasn't; but I was still shouted down by people that just didn't understand the problems of using alcohol as a motor fuel. Then people jumped on the algae diesel fuel gig. We were going to get our fuel from algae. I showed the math that showed why that wouldn't work. Again I was shouted down.
If the future of towing an RV is with electric trucks, the future is not looking bright for the "average RV'er." If you can drive 100 miles and then sit for an hour charging then buy one of the 3 electric trucks out on the market right now and have at it. I will wave at you as I pass the charging station.
BTW, I still think there should be an electric tow page just like I suggested months ago in this thread.
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2oldman
NM
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Turtle n Peeps wrote:many years ago on this very forum people were saying we should go to alcohol as a fuel. I said it was a bad idea and it will never "be practicable". It wasn't; but I was still shouted down by people that just didn't understand the problems of using alcohol as a motor fuel. Then people jumped on the algae diesel fuel gig. We were going to get our fuel from algae. I showed the math that showed why that wouldn't work. Again I was shouted down. As far as I recall car makers weren't retooling or adapting for those fuels. They sure are for EVs.
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Lwiddis
Southern California :(
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"I have to plug my phone in every night or every other night which is a total PITA."
If your phone battery weighed more and was larger you wouldn't need to do so. Personally I like a slim phone.
Winnebago 2101DS TT & 2022 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ Z71, WindyNation 300 watt solar-Lossigy 200 AH Lithium battery. Prefer boondocking, USFS, COE, BLM, NPS, TVA, state camps. Bicyclist. 14 yr. Army -11B40 then 11A - (MOS 1542 & 1560) IOBC & IOAC grad
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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One thing not mentioned , with respect to OTR trucking is, currently automobiles consume over 90% of gasoline production.
A barrel of oil is approximately 50% gasoline, 30% diesel, 10% jet fuel and 10% misc
Trucking and rail costs are already abhorrently high and predicted to get worse. 60% increase since 2020 and expected to get far worse in the near future (years).
Once the ability to economically use "all" of a barrel of crude gets more difficult and the largest byproduct demand decreases significantly, the cost of the fuel that WILL still arguably power OTR trucks and locomotives will absolutely skyrocket.
Perhaps to the level of OTR EV trucks and trains. Albeit for different reasons, both of which are somewhere between no good and certain death for the consumer (ALL of us) and the industries supporting us.
Of course, the real answer is somewhere in the middle, but the cost of this agenda WILL be borne by all of US ultimately.
Sure in (however many) years, technology may, will (or won't...there's practical limits achieved with everything, not unlike the other options mentioned above) overcome the huge cost increase looming from the 2 current options.
At the rate this is going, may not need to save the planet...lol
Old saying, "everything in moderation" applies here. Bite off more than you can chew (greenies) and you might just end up burning the place down...
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Turtle n Peeps
California
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2oldman wrote:Turtle n Peeps wrote:many years ago on this very forum people were saying we should go to alcohol as a fuel. I said it was a bad idea and it will never "be practicable". It wasn't; but I was still shouted down by people that just didn't understand the problems of using alcohol as a motor fuel. Then people jumped on the algae diesel fuel gig. We were going to get our fuel from algae. I showed the math that showed why that wouldn't work. Again I was shouted down. As far as I recall car makers weren't retooling or adapting for those fuels. They sure are for EVs.
I guess you have never heard of E85 fuels then. The car makers had to retool the whole fuel system to run E85. That whole fiasco cost US consumers thousands/vehicle.
As far as the algae deal; there is nothing to retool. You run it just like #2 diesel fuel. It was not cost effective just like I said 15+ yeas ago.
The reason people use very little E85 is because it isn't practical. When people learned it dropped their mileage about 25 to 30% people dropped that idea like a hot potato.
When people learned that Bio-diesel was harming their 20K+ diesel engines they dropped that like a hot potato too. Every single Bio-diesel plant that was in my area is now out of business. Every one.
Remember this infamous plant in Tx that a famous stoner use to own? I do. BioWillie up in smoke.
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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JRscooby wrote:mkirsch wrote:
How do you know it's not something you're interested in unless you open it and read it?
Once you do that it's too late. The damage is done.
Really though all this EV posturing and pontificating is OT for this forum and does not belong here.
This is our RV electric future. It's the future man!
tells me what topic likely is.
What it MIGHT be, but not what it is. The ONLY way to know for sure is to open it and read it.
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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Tyler0215 wrote:No one has ever said that EV's are the answer to all needs. The ICE and Diesel will never dissappear in our lifetimes no matter how muck the greenies want them to. It took 40 years for the ICE to replace the horse, the change to EV's will not come any quicker. Nothing to debate folks.
I disagree. The advance of technology has increased exponentially over time. Think about it, people born in the early 1900's went from horse and buggy to home computers in an average lifetime, and things have advanced so much farther since that time.
If it took 40 years then to go from horse and buggy to automobile, we should be able to get from mostly ICE to mostly electric much quicker in this day and age.
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