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Open Roads Forum  >  Tow Vehicles

 > 2023 Ford Super Duty Reveal

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Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 09/28/22 11:49am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

“Looks” pretty similar to current models. Is “new” really the right word?

2diesels? No way…Ram has been getting lambasted about this for years….
Maybe Frod copied that theory like Ram copied the cp4 from them? Lol


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afidel

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Posted: 09/28/22 12:46pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

afidel wrote:

Disappointed they didn't bring PowerBoost to the SuperDuty this year, it's a feature I'd love to have in my next truck but I won't be buying another half ton, next truck will be a 1T SRW.


The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO.

Not into it for the hybrid aspect, I'm into it for having a 7kW inverter generator with a muffler that will keep noise to about 40dB and a huge fuel tank.


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valhalla360

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Posted: 09/28/22 12:52pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

FishOnOne wrote:

afidel wrote:

Disappointed they didn't bring PowerBoost to the SuperDuty this year, it's a feature I'd love to have in my next truck but I won't be buying another half ton, next truck will be a 1T SRW.


The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO.


I didn't watch the videos but saw an article a few days back (can't find the article now).

The new 6.8L is supposed to be 400hp and 450lb-ft. The 7.3 is 430hp and 475lb-ft...hardly seems worth the trouble to have both.

Has anyone heard a suggestion of what Ford's logic is?

While a modest turbo on either (assuming the block was built for it), would be great. Problem is if they put out a big block turbo for the super duty line, I would assume it would have at least 500-550hp and probably north of 550-600ft-lb of torque. With the turbo, you could dial back the RPM while still putting out lots of power. That would make it very competitive against the diesels.

It becomes a marketing problem. How do you talk buyers into the $10k upgrade for the diesel if a gas 6.8L turbo can go toe to toe with the diesel in the toughest conditions for say $3k?


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Grit dog

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Posted: 09/28/22 02:01pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

afidel wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

afidel wrote:

Disappointed they didn't bring PowerBoost to the SuperDuty this year, it's a feature I'd love to have in my next truck but I won't be buying another half ton, next truck will be a 1T SRW.


The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO.

Not into it for the hybrid aspect, I'm into it for having a 7kW inverter generator with a muffler that will keep noise to about 40dB and a huge fuel tank.


As PT Barnum said.....

Grit dog

Black Diamond, WA

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Posted: 09/28/22 02:04pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:



The new 6.8L is supposed to be 400hp and 450lb-ft. The 7.3 is 430hp and 475lb-ft...hardly seems worth the trouble to have both.

Has anyone heard a suggestion of what Ford's logic is?



Will be interesting to find out what the reasoning is for sure, because on the surface and a few layers deep, even, it makes no sense to me.

Only possible reason I can think of and I think the details around the engine have been pretty hushed...is that they are going to go high tech and have some great fuel mileage claims by using direct injection or some newer technology.

Bionic Man

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Posted: 09/28/22 04:24pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

valhalla360 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

afidel wrote:

Disappointed they didn't bring PowerBoost to the SuperDuty this year, it's a feature I'd love to have in my next truck but I won't be buying another half ton, next truck will be a 1T SRW.


The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO.


I didn't watch the videos but saw an article a few days back (can't find the article now).

The new 6.8L is supposed to be 400hp and 450lb-ft. The 7.3 is 430hp and 475lb-ft...hardly seems worth the trouble to have both.

Has anyone heard a suggestion of what Ford's logic is?

While a modest turbo on either (assuming the block was built for it), would be great. Problem is if they put out a big block turbo for the super duty line, I would assume it would have at least 500-550hp and probably north of 550-600ft-lb of torque. With the turbo, you could dial back the RPM while still putting out lots of power. That would make it very competitive against the diesels.

It becomes a marketing problem. How do you talk buyers into the $10k upgrade for the diesel if a gas 6.8L turbo can go toe to toe with the diesel in the toughest conditions for say $3k?


I also don't understand the logic for two engines that are so close in rating. If I were guessing, I'd say that maybe the 6.8 is built to accommodate some sort of hybrid upgrade and the 7.3 is not.

As for the turbo big block, the answer is also MPG. In that a turbo BB would make the old 8.1l seem miserly. It would likely get less than 5 MPG towing. Which is why you haven't seen the 5.0 receive the "eco boost" treatment either......


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afidel

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Posted: 09/28/22 05:37pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

The 6.8L is interesting in that it's going to make the 7.3 much less popular in the pickup segment but by using common parts with the 7.3 it will significantly lower the cost for the 7.3 which will still be used in the F450 chassis cab up to the F750 which means Ford might end up in total with higher profit margins. It'll also be easier to manage the supply chain for what are essentially 2 versions of the same engine with the 10R100 likely being done for the same reasons, eliminating the 6R100 transmission and the associated supply chain simplifies and cheapens the parts bin.

FishOnOne

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Posted: 09/28/22 05:51pm Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Here's TFL's review with a Ford engineer.

Overall I think the truck looks good, but not sure about those large fender vents and the dash looks a bit commercial. Also Ford literally copied GM on the bumper and bed steps.

Link


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Groover

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Posted: 09/29/22 08:46am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Bionic Man wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

afidel wrote:

Disappointed they didn't bring PowerBoost to the SuperDuty this year, it's a feature I'd love to have in my next truck but I won't be buying another half ton, next truck will be a 1T SRW.


The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO.


I didn't watch the videos but saw an article a few days back (can't find the article now).

The new 6.8L is supposed to be 400hp and 450lb-ft. The 7.3 is 430hp and 475lb-ft...hardly seems worth the trouble to have both.

Has anyone heard a suggestion of what Ford's logic is?

While a modest turbo on either (assuming the block was built for it), would be great. Problem is if they put out a big block turbo for the super duty line, I would assume it would have at least 500-550hp and probably north of 550-600ft-lb of torque. With the turbo, you could dial back the RPM while still putting out lots of power. That would make it very competitive against the diesels.

It becomes a marketing problem. How do you talk buyers into the $10k upgrade for the diesel if a gas 6.8L turbo can go toe to toe with the diesel in the toughest conditions for say $3k?


I also don't understand the logic for two engines that are so close in rating. If I were guessing, I'd say that maybe the 6.8 is built to accommodate some sort of hybrid upgrade and the 7.3 is not.

As for the turbo big block, the answer is also MPG. In that a turbo BB would make the old 8.1l seem miserly. It would likely get less than 5 MPG towing. Which is why you haven't seen the 5.0 receive the "eco boost" treatment either......


"The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO."
I would love to see a test or at least an interview with a Ford engineer that informs us as to what the hybrid system actually does when towing. I know that when towing with my Tesla I still get all of the benefits of regeneration when towing. Surely Ford gets some.

"I also don't understand the logic for two engines that are so close in rating. If I were guessing, I'd say that maybe the 6.8 is built to accommodate some sort of hybrid upgrade and the 7.3 is not."
I have seen reports that the 7.3 is getting more power and torque so there will be more difference between the two motors.

"While a modest turbo on either (assuming the block was built for it), would be great."
You can get superchargers already for the 7.3 taking it past 700hp and they seem to be reliable. There are several videos on YouTube about them. As with any motor, hp takes fuel. Fuel economy only goes down the tubes if you use that hp but the tests seem to indicate that it isn't too bad.

valhalla360

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Posted: 09/29/22 11:56am Link  |  Quote  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Groover wrote:

"The F150 PowerBoost benefits are really limited to city driving and there's really no advantage with towing IMO."
I would love to see a test or at least an interview with a Ford engineer that informs us as to what the hybrid system actually does when towing. I know that when towing with my Tesla I still get all of the benefits of regeneration when towing. Surely Ford gets some.

"I also don't understand the logic for two engines that are so close in rating. If I were guessing, I'd say that maybe the 6.8 is built to accommodate some sort of hybrid upgrade and the 7.3 is not."
I have seen reports that the 7.3 is getting more power and torque so there will be more difference between the two motors.

"While a modest turbo on either (assuming the block was built for it), would be great."
You can get superchargers already for the 7.3 taking it past 700hp and they seem to be reliable. There are several videos on YouTube about them. As with any motor, hp takes fuel. Fuel economy only goes down the tubes if you use that hp but the tests seem to indicate that it isn't too bad.


A Plug-In-Hybrid in the 5.0-6.0L range would make a lot of sense in a super duty. While it may be geared towards the round town driver similar to the 1/2 ton. It would be pretty simple to have a towing mode.
- Yeah, when running around town, it could use most or all battery power, then have the motor kick in. So for a local work truck, it could probably eliminate 70-90% of gas consumption (assuming you plug it in at night).
- A simple solution for towing: When the tow/haul mode is activated, it could reserve the battery power for heavy power demand situations (like climbing a grade). On level ground, a truck may only be putting out 150hp to maintain highway speeds pulling 7-10k trailer. So even a 5.0L could handle that. But when you reach a steep grade and throttle exceeds a certain level, a 100hp electric motor with 300ft-lb of torque could kick in to supplement giving you power similar to the 7.3L. Something like a 25kwh battery bank could feed 100hp for 20 minutes which would cover most mountain climbs. Assuming it can do regeneration, it could refill the battery bank on the downhill.
- A more refine solution could integrate the GPS routing. The system could look at the route and with a bit of logic, maximize the use of battery power use and regeneration. If there is a big climb coming up, it may save most of the battery for the climb but if you just finished a big descent & have a full battery bank and it's only 20min flatland run to the destination, it may use lots of battery power to reduce the load on the gas engine. (This is just a simple example.) You could also provide an input for the driver to say if they will be charging at the end of the run or if they want to reserve X% in the battery bank as they won't be charging.

You've always been able to do after market turbo/super chargers on engines but Ford's warranty department is likely tell you to pound sand for any issues if they can remotely blame it on you adding a turbo. The question is would Ford do a factory original turbo. It's certainly technologically feasible but more of a marketing strategy issue. 99% of people won't add an aftermarket unit. A factory original 700hp gas engine that is reliable could lure a lot of people away from the diesel.

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