 |
|
|
|
Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 05/06/2013
View Profile
 Offline
|
zb39 wrote:Not portable, but awesome..... I'm not sure anybody makes a liteweight portable diesel gen set.
I guess it would depend on your definition of portable.
The question was about portable gensets. Lots of things are awesome but not apples to apples.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
|
deltabravo
Spokane, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 09/08/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
Once upon a time I had a Progressive Dynamics hard wired EMS system in my AF 811.
It rejected generator power until I flipped a switch on its remote panel to disable one mode of its monitoring - open ground I think.
I always had to remember to flip that switch to use my EU2000.
One aspect of the hard wired unit that I despised, and a portable unit would surely do the same thing when plugged in to a smaller portable gen is this:
Any time my roof A/C compressor kicked on, the generator voltage would drop just enough to trigger the EMS unit to cut off incoming power (low voltage protect). When that happened, the compressor would of course be in a semi-locked rotor condition and would NOT start when the EMS re-enabled incoming power, so the voltage would sag again and the EMS would cut off power.
The ONLY way to get the generator to reliably run the A/C due to the issues with the hard wired EMS I had was to turn on my inverter, which would allow the inverter to carry the load of the A/C when the generator voltage sagged and caused the EMS to kill incoming generator power. Once the EMS re-enable incoming generator power, the inverter transfer switch would enable and switch off inverter mode and then the generator would power the A/C.
For the above reasons, I never recommend using a surge protector (portable or hard wired) when using a smaller sized portable generator.
I had my AF 811 for close to 11 years. About 3 years before I sold it, I removed the hard wired EMS and ebay'd it.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator
|
TxGearhead
Texas
Senior Member
Joined: 04/17/2016
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
^ This.
2018 Ram 3500 CC LB DRW 4X4 Cummins Aisin Laramie Pearl White
2018 Landmark Oshkosh
2008 Bigfoot 25C9.4
2014 NauticStar 21 ShallowBay 150HP Yamaha
2016 GoDevil 18X44 35HP Surface Drive
|
Bedlam
PNW
Moderator
Joined: 06/13/2012
View Profile
|
The fault issue with EMS is whether your generator has a bonded neutral to ground. Typically the generator is powering a RV or transfer switch at a home so bonding happens there rather than at the generator to prevent a ground loop and electrical noise.
They do sell bonding plugs for generators or yours may come with one. This is used if you are running tools or appliances directly off the generator so you have a safe return path during a short that will pop the breaker.
Chevy Sonic 1.8-Honda Passport C70B-Host Mammoth 11.5-Interstate Car Carrier 20-Joyner SandViper 250-Kawasaki Concours ZG1000-Paros 8' flatbed-Pelican Decker DLX 8.75-Ram 5500 HD
|
otrfun
On The Road
Senior Member
Joined: 09/08/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
deltabravo wrote:Once upon a time I had a Progressive Dynamics hard wired EMS system in my AF 811.
It rejected generator power until I flipped a switch on its remote panel to disable one mode of its monitoring - open ground I think.
I always had to remember to flip that switch to use my EU2000.
One aspect of the hard wired unit that I despised, and a portable unit would surely do the same thing when plugged in to a smaller portable gen is this:
Any time my roof A/C compressor kicked on, the generator voltage would drop just enough to trigger the EMS unit to cut off incoming power (low voltage protect). When that happened, the compressor would of course be in a semi-locked rotor condition and would NOT start when the EMS re-enabled incoming power, so the voltage would sag again and the EMS would cut off power.
The ONLY way to get the generator to reliably run the A/C due to the issues with the hard wired EMS I had was to turn on my inverter, which would allow the inverter to carry the load of the A/C when the generator voltage sagged and caused the EMS to kill incoming generator power. Once the EMS re-enable incoming generator power, the inverter transfer switch would enable and switch off inverter mode and then the generator would power the A/C.
For the above reasons, I never recommend using a surge protector (portable or hard wired) when using a smaller sized portable generator.
I had my AF 811 for close to 11 years. About 3 years before I sold it, I removed the hard wired EMS and ebay'd it. We've been using a hardwired Progressive Industries 30a EMS in our truck camper for the last 3 years. It's active, in-circuit, all the time, regardless whether we're on commmercial, generator (Honda 2200), or inverter (2000 watt) power.
A bonding plug is necessary for both the generator and inverter to prevent the E2 open ground error. The bonding plug consists of a male 120vac plug with the neutral bonded to ground which is plugged into the spare outlet on the generator and inverter.
We power our 11k BTU a/c via inverter/battery and generator (not at the same time) regularly and encounter very little, if any, voltage sag--certainly nothing that would trigger the EMS low-voltage cut-off. No doubt the Micro Air Easy Start installed in our a/c, which drops the LRA from 55a to <20a, is certainly a big reason for the lack of voltage sag.
The PI EMS works perfectly for us.
P.S. deltabravo, is it possible you were experiencing more of an issue with your generator lacking enough inrush current to start your a/c compressor, rather than an issue with the PI EMS?? Sounds to me like your EMS was simply doing its job. The voltage dropped too low when your generator was unable to provide enough inrush current to start the a/c compressor, so the EMS simply cut-off power??
* This post was
edited 02/01/23 06:59pm by otrfun *
|
|
|
deltabravo
Spokane, WA
Senior Member
Joined: 09/08/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
otrfun wrote:P.S. deltabravo, is it possible you were experiencing more of an issue with your generator lacking enough inrush current to start your a/c compressor, rather than an issue with the PI EMS?? Sounds to me like your EMS was simply doing its job. The voltage dropped too low when your generator was unable to provide enough inrush current to start the a/c compressor, so the EMS simply cut-off power??
Two things were at play:
1. The E2 error, which I could overcome be flipping the switch on the EMS remote, which bypass that error.
3. The other issue was the lack of ability of the generator to provide enough surge power to get the A/C fan and compressor started. When that happened, the voltage would sag and the EMS would kick off the power.
When I finally decided to jettison the EMS, the generator started the A/C just fine.
If I would have had a Micro Air Easy Start back then, it would have likely allowed the A/C to start from the generator with the EMS installed.
I so have a Micro Air Easy Start on my AF 992 truck camper's A/C.
|
otrfun
On The Road
Senior Member
Joined: 09/08/2012
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
|
deltabravo wrote:otrfun wrote:P.S. deltabravo, is it possible you were experiencing more of an issue with your generator lacking enough inrush current to start your a/c compressor, rather than an issue with the PI EMS?? Sounds to me like your EMS was simply doing its job. The voltage dropped too low when your generator was unable to provide enough inrush current to start the a/c compressor, so the EMS simply cut-off power?? Two things were at play:
1. The E2 error, which I could overcome be flipping the switch on the EMS remote, which bypass that error.
3. The other issue was the lack of ability of the generator to provide enough surge power to get the A/C fan and compressor started. When that happened, the voltage would sag and the EMS would kick off the power.
When I finally decided to jettison the EMS, the generator started the A/C just fine.
If I would have had a Micro Air Easy Start back then, it would have likely allowed the A/C to start from the generator with the EMS installed.
I so have a Micro Air Easy Start on my AF 992 truck camper's A/C. What you're describing appears to be the same scenario posed in my questions.
Flipping the switch on the EMS remote to the off position does prevent the E2 error; however, it accomplishes this by turning off *all* protection.
Interesting enough, even with all protection turned off, the EMS circuitry itself will shutdown (opening the EMS relay, shutting off power to the RV) if voltage drops much below 95-100vac. This is not the low-voltage protection being activated, it's the entire EMS shutting down from lack of power. I would guess this is probably what occurred in your situation.
When you removed the EMS, it allowed the voltage to drop extremely low without interruption while the a/c compressor started. It says a lot about your Honda 2000, that even with this huge voltage drop, it was still able to provide enough inrush current to start the a/c compressor.
Yup, I agree, a Micro Air Easy Start would have prevented both the voltage drop and the resultant low-voltage cut-off you experienced with the EMS.
|
|
|
|
|
|
