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mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
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Huntindog wrote:Grit dog wrote:Agreed, one can doo harm to seals with either device. Well sort of. The biggest issue is getting grease on brakes unless you totally over grease and pack the whole hub plumb full.
Actually for that system to work as designed, one MUST fill the hub plumb full.
Exactly! They all seem to miss this part. The grease you spend on one hub could easily pack all of them 4 times 10. Hey, but you know...grease is cheap. Right? ![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/wink.gif "wink")
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Boon Docker
Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
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spoon059 wrote:Boon Docker wrote:Wow, that's what I call price gouging.
Considering it takes about one hour to do 4 wheels.
I disagree. If those are posted prices, you have the ability to decide if you want to pay for someone to do it, or invest $10 and do it yourself. The OP, or whomever else, can decide if its worth $230 to pay someone else or get their own hands dirty.
Its price gouging to sell water for $50/case after a hurricane.
It wasn't $230, he was quouted $400. That's $100 per wheel.![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
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deadticket8
All over
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He is a she. Its all good. So I went by a truck service place but no one was there. Called later and the man says to do what I want, pull the bearings, clean, new grease would be close to $500. Hmm I says, at $130/ hour thats high. Oh our rates are $165. No I says the posted rate in your shop says $130 for rvs. And your'e talking 2 hours, gloves, grease seals rags. After we talked and he could see I wasn't new to rvs he was more amenable. But he lost me on the first lie. Oh well, I don't need it done until April.Anyway, thanks for the input! BTW $230! I'd be on that like the dog on a meat wagon.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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Grit dog wrote:Huntindog wrote:Grit dog wrote:Agreed, one can doo harm to seals with either device. Well sort of. The biggest issue is getting grease on brakes unless you totally over grease and pack the whole hub plumb full.
Actually for that system to work as designed, one MUST fill the hub plumb full.
You’re correct in that is what bearing buddy says. And in the past like 30 years ago, I thought that was the right answer. It also lead to grease always blowing past the seals.
I would never recommend someone filling the entire cavity with grease, nor should you.
I don’t believe there’s an exact science as to how much grease. But you sure want more than just 2 neatly packed bearings and a clean empty void between the bearings and you don’t want so much thst the spinning grease is continually in contact with the spindle. The right answer is somewhere in between.
I typically put a few good size globs in the void along with generously packed bearings. Guessing maybe total of about 1/3 full.
Totally full and bearing buddies is just a guarantee of grease getting pushed past the rear seal pretty quick once things heat up.
First lets make sure we are talking about the same things. There are TWO systems that use grease zerks. Bearing Buddies which are for boat trailers. and EZ Lubes which are for trailers not meant to go in the water. The two sytems are often confused on forums with a lot of folks calling EZ Lubes bearing Buddies and vice versa. FWIW, I have owned two trailers with EZ lubes, and I installed Bearing Buddies on my boat trailer.
First I will describe Bearing buddies. They came about to solve the problem of water getting into the bearings when a hot axle is plunged into cold water while launching the boat. This creates suction force inside the bearing cavity, and water is sucked past the seals.
This system has a special cap that has a zerk that is screwed into a small spring loaded piston. This piston has markings on its outside
A green ring and a red ring. As you pump grease in the hub the piston moves out, compressing it's spring. You pump grease in until the green ring appears. No more. The grease cavity will then be under slight pressure when it is dunked it the water, it cools rapidly, and the piston moves into the hub without sucking water in. This is a good system that solves a problem when used as designed. It is NOT for RV trailers
Now EZ lubes. There is no spring piston in them. When grease is pumped in it follows a path that leads to a small opening feeding the inner bearing. Then you MUST continue pumping grease until it fills the entire hub, then and only then it will reach and enter the outer bearing.It will then exit around the zerk. Note: filling the hub cavity takes almost an entire tube for each hub!
So as you can see, BOTH systems require the entire hub be filled plumb full of grease to function as designed.
I won't get into all of the problems with EZ lubes, as I am tired of typing... I will just say that I do not use that feature.
Huntindog
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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I understand both systems very well. Hence the reason I agreed with you about the intended function of Bearing Buddies.
Now I’d never read the instructions for EZ Lube until now, so I stand corrected that EZ also ends up with a full hub of grease if used per their instructions. (Theoretically)
Maybe I wasn’t clear but what I was saying is even with or without any of the grease zerk devices, a hub does not need to be “full” to get grease to both bearings.
Centrifugal force while spinning combined with the grease heating up and becoming less viscous is the actual reason that bearings don’t run out of grease until there is just not enough left or it gets so old and crusty it quits working (like decades old stuff we’ve all seen it where the grease is actually cracked)
Either system can be used easily to freshen up the grease in a hub and add a little more for necessity or peace of mind.
But to do that requires one to have a little common sense and it helps to know about how much grease is already in there.
I don’t believe “full” hubs burn up bearings. But they do tend to push grease past the back seal and create more heat and friction.
Sort of off topic, I apologize, as the OP doesn’t care. He just wants to know how much the going rate is for someone else to pack his bearings.
Cheers!
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spoon059
Just north of D.C.
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Boon Docker wrote:It wasn't $230, he was quouted $400. That's $100 per wheel.
Yup. There is a price to be paid to keep your hands clean. If the OP is willing to pay $400 to keep her hands clean, that is her choice.
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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Ever quote a price to do something, start the job and discover other problems?
I can imagine telling somebody I would pack bearings for so much, then find a bad race. (Bad race is first thing I find, because I clean it first. If race is bad, why waste time cleaning the bearing?) Now if the owner has no slack in budget to pay for races and bearings, plus the extra work of changing the race, there is a problem.
BTW, I keep seal, bearings and races for at least 1 wheel in camper. Most times, there is enough new seals to do job in garage. This way, I know I can finish the wheel I start, if not the job, without a parts run.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Joined: 07/16/2003
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Huntindog wrote:Grit dog wrote:Agreed, one can doo harm to seals with either device. Well sort of. The biggest issue is getting grease on brakes unless you totally over grease and pack the whole hub plumb full.
Actually for that system to work as designed, one MUST fill the hub plumb full.
yup I was just going to say that haha. thats why it is important to have that tire rotating so it comes out the right area and doesnt force its self through the seal. its almost comical when I do mine, sit on a shop stool, use one foot to spin the tire as I pump..
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Grit dog wrote:
Maybe I wasn’t clear but what I was saying is even with or without any of the grease zerk devices, a hub does not need to be “full” to get grease to both bearings.
Centrifugal force while spinning combined with the grease heating up and becoming less viscous is the actual reason that bearings don’t run out of grease until there is just not enough left or it gets so old and crusty it quits working.
Cheers!
there was a rash of bad berrings a few years ago (6 to 10) mine was one of them, where on my first trip I had a berring heat up to the point I had to pull over. what was found in the investagation was the factory or dealership never filled the berring as per the instructions so there wans't enough grease in there which led to the inner berring failing. two of the other ones were on the virge of failing when I took it in. so since then all I do is have the tire rotating as I pump and you pump till you see grease coming out. I use enough to replace about 1/3 of the grease in the hub each spring when I do this and in the last 6 years my heat gun has never showen a tem when I stop that is even remotly warm.. they actualy run pretty cool now that there filled properly.
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mosseater
Dillsburg, PA
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Here's what I do when not doing a full repack. I DO use the center spindle zerk to pump slowly about 3 pumps of grease, because it does get to the inner bearing and will fairly efficiently force fresh grease into the bearing cage. If done correctly, it is fairly effective for supplemental lubrication of the inner bearing. But that's where I stop. Filling the hub with grease is just silly.
After that, I use a bearing grease needle to carefully shoot a few pumps into the cage of the outer bearing. I move the needle around the perimeter, inserting it carefully between the rollers. It's not preferred over pulling the hubs and doing a full repack/ inspection, but it works to keep some fresh clean grease in both bearings with minimal effort, time and cost. I also found the first time I pulled hubs to install new bearings and seals that the inner grease hole in the spindle has a sharp burr which can cut a seal lip. I lightly chamfered the edges of the hole to insure I can reinstall the hub without cutting the seal lip. If you want to fill the hub space with grease, have at it. But you'll be doing your bearing and seal life no favors. Good luck.
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