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time2roll
Southern California
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Joined: 03/21/2005
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fj12ryder wrote:shelbyfv wrote:What would be the nefarious "agenda" of the EPA? Are there legitimate non-government scientists who disagree with the info they provide? Almost surely. The EPA has never been known for it's exactness in their research. Witness the renowned accuracy of the EPA mileage numbers. ![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/smile.gif "smile") The auto manufacturers do the testing and reporting themselves. EPA just comes up with the standardized test for the manufacturers to actually follow.
Political agenda or business agenda?
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/are-manufacturer-claims-for-fuel-economy-accurate/
I think a few have been caught fibbing lately too....
Of course government tyranny and conspiracy theories are much better click bait than the truth.
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shelbyfv
TN
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Joined: 02/18/2006
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time2roll wrote:Of course government tyranny and conspiracy theories are much better click bait than the truth. I won't be around but it would be interesting to see how historians write about the past 30 years. The era leading up to and including the Civil War has been described as a "derangement of the public mind." Citizens of 11 states collectively went off the rails. The conspiracy mindset of today is less excusable since folks have easy access to accurate info if they care to look.
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RambleOnNW
Pacific Northwest
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Joined: 08/06/2010
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fj12ryder wrote:shelbyfv wrote:What would be the nefarious "agenda" of the EPA? Are there legitimate non-government scientists who disagree with the info they provide? Almost surely. The EPA has never been known for it's exactness in their research. Witness the renowned accuracy of the EPA mileage numbers.
I grew up in the 60's and doubting government data is a fact of life. You believe what you want, and I'll believe what I want, and I guarantee that I'll be less surprised in the results.
Combined Sewer Overflows, where storm water and sewage is mixed in a single pipe, and overflowing into streams, rivers, lakes, and the ocean occur during storms at hundreds of locations across the country.
This is an indisputable fact.
EPA has been working with communities to clean this up, a 150-year legacy of communities dumping sewage directly into streams, rivers, lakes, and the ocean.
Not just a problem in the US. Heck Victoria Canada just completed their first sewage treatment plant in early 2021. Before that they were just dumping raw sewage in Puget Sound since 1894.
So to state “ The EPA has never been known for it's exactness in their research” is another case of misinformation.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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way2roll wrote:Lantley wrote: Why do you think all auto manufacturers world wide have suddenly committed to EV?
After taking a ride in a Tesla you will have a much better understanding of the EV debate. You will understand why Elon is the richest man in the world and can afford to buy Twitter!
He single handily changed the game!
First, not all auto manufacturers world wide have committed to EV's. Second, the ONLY reasons US manufactures switched was due to state and federal regulations to do so coupled with subsidies. And at a cost. Ford alone cut 3,000 + jobs. Lastly, Elon is not the richest (or was) man in the world from selling Teslas. It's because the US gave him Billions in funding from taxpayer dollars. We won't delve into the fact that he nearly ran twitter in the ground in the first month.
Again, I am not anti EV, but facts are facts. Sure Teslas might be fun to drive, great for a certain market and packed with a lot of technology. But they are not the climate and ecological silver bullet they were touted as and they aren't thriving from a free market.
None of your responses changes the validity of what I wrote
Should I have said all major manufactures world wide? Maybe I should have said most? Surely you don't think Elon gained is wealth from sheer luck by scamming the government.
I make another erroneous claim and state all major corporations take all the government subsidies they can get!
Elon wasn't the first and won't be the last entrepreneur to accept subsidies.. To the taxpayer's dismay it's simply how the game is played.
Not only is Tesla thriving in the free market , they are changing the free market. Because of Tesla's success in showing that EV's can be way more than an econobox commuter car. The ICE competition has taken a if you can't beat them join them approach.
ICE manufactures have come to realize EV is a viable way for the future.
None of this will make any sense until you experience a Tesla ride first hand. Otherwise it's just words on a screen.
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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Joined: 04/08/2002
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map40 wrote:BCSnob wrote:RVing comes in many flavors. It seems when discussing EVs as tow vehicles the only flavor of RVing many people want to focus on the hauling a >6000lbs TT/5th wheel on a multi day cross country trip. An EV is currently not a good TV for this flavor of RVing.
Another flavor of RVing is hauling a <6000lb TT or an even lighter PU a few hrs from home to a campground for a weekend camping trip using their daily commuting vehicle as the TV. Is everyone willing to bet the current EVs could not fulfill this function? Don’t forget most of the population won’t be towing “the Ike” on a weekend camping trip.
pianotuna wrote:map40,
Define long distance?
Define heavy loads.
OK, it is all relative. The heavier the load and the longer the distance, the more inconvenient EVs are. For example:
Towing a small trailer (3500-5000#) with a F150 lightning extended range will do close to 200 - 225 miles at highway speeds. At that point you have to find a charging station, but most won't accommodate a truck and trailer, so you may have to drop the trailer, charge for 1 hour, hook up again and get on your way.
Add to that "range anxiety" and the fact that CCS chargers are not the most reliable network, I would not wait until I have 25 miles left in the tank to charge, so now the range goes down to a usable 175 miles.
If you go bigger (think Tesla Semi) you have a 900KWs and can do 500miles at 62mph. But to recharge you need a special charger (1000V) or 10 hours in a supercharger WITHOUT your trailer, and that is if your semi cab fits in the charger parking lot. So the Tesla Semi can only work between predetermined locations.
Let's go smaller, you have a small trailer or a pop-up and you are towing with a Tesla, you range may go down between 30-50%, you may have around 180 miles of range, but being a small car you can drop the trailer and charge in a supercharger.
Also where you live affects the equation. Fuel prices and temperatures affect the calculation. EVs excel in stop-and-go and low speed driving because of the high efficiency and regenerative braking.
EVs work when they are less expensive and the savings justify the inconvenience (or the inconvenience is non-existent). For example, I drive an I3. I can drive my daily drive on battery, but if I ever have to go longer, I have a built-in generator that allows me to go as long as I need without ever charging. I very rarely use the generator, but it eliminates range anxiety and gives me complete freedom with no limitation.
Every case is different, but in general terms, the heavier the vehicle and the longer the distance, the more problematic it becomes for the EVs.
Hopefully this explains my point. The EV market today is not ruled by environmentalists, it is ruled by people who want a lower cost of ownership or want some of the advantages of the EVs (Speed, acceleration, charge it at home, etc)
All this dropping the trailer to refuel.Sounds like great fun.![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/eek.gif "eek")
I unhook my coach once. When I arrive at my destination![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/biggrin.gif "biggrin")
Huntindog
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FishOnOne
The Great State of Texas
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Lantley wrote:All I will add to all this diatribe is that the real advantage of EV's is efficiency.
Charge time is not efficient.
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FishOnOne
The Great State of Texas
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Here's All Electric Family towing their Airstream using a strategy of two EV trucks to get their camper to the campground. Unbelievable!
Link
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propchef
NORCAL
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FishOnOne wrote:Here's All Electric Family towing their Airstream using a strategy of two EV trucks to get their camper to the campground. Unbelievable!
Link
Thanks, that was fun.
BTW for those who haven't seen this, they're taking both EVs to an EV rally and they wanted to see which truck performs better. They say several times this is just a fun experiment and isn't the way they normally travel.
That's a beautiful 30' Airstream. :-)
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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pianotuna wrote:way2roll wrote:pianotuna wrote:way2roll wrote: Again, I am not anti EV, but facts are facts. Sure Teslas might be fun to drive, great for a certain market and packed with a lot of technology.
Try to do a tune up on an ice. First step connect the obe2 port.
Ask an automobile mechanic to do a tune up on a carburettor?
My point is that ice is even more complex and packed with more technology than a bev.
Not sure what your point is. I didn't say the tech was a negative. Some of you need to stop being so emotional about this.
There is less technology in a bev than an ice.
OMG you should quit drunk posting!
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Latner
Indiana
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Joined: 08/06/2006
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pianotuna wrote:What about the billions of subsidies to the oil companies?
What about Exxon (and likely others) knowing in the 1970-80ties about global climate change? All the while spending money to cast doubt on their own results?
and yet Exxon just completed a $2B expansion to an oil refinery in Texas after being told by our leaders to increase production, even though said leaders want to shutdown their industry. ![[emoticon]](http://www.rv.net/sharedcontent/cfb/images/scratchead.gif "scratchead")
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