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2oldman
NM
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StirCrazy wrote:battleborn is way over priced for what it is. There's always a different opinion. I don't subscribe to the 'overpriced' argument.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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No, they’re still overpriced thanks to a following due to being the first legit LFP guys.
But hats off to them. I never turn down selling something for 2x what it’s worth if someone will pay me for it. And continue to do so until I can’t.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
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otrfun
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StirCrazy wrote: . . . I would argue there is more potential for something to go wring in a battle born with over 100 cells soldered in as aposed to a prismatic type with only 8 battery conections, but it will be easier to detect on the prismatic . . . I would argue there is less potential.
The 100ah Battleborn (BB) battery cost more for a very good reason---better redundancy. BB uses 100+ cylindrical cells spot-welded in a parallel/series configuration (vs. series connected prismatic cells). Configured this way, a few cells can loose capacity or become unbalanced and have very little effect on the battery's overall output.
99% of the 100ah lifepo4 batteries on Amazon, etc., use prismatic cells. Typically 4 in series. If *any* of these 4 cells loose capacity or become unbalanced it directly and immediately degrades the overall output of the battery---potentially to the point the battery becomes almost unusable, all because of one cell.
BB could have easily chosen to use less expensive prismatic cells, but they didn't in order to provide a more stable, robust battery.
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3 tons
NV.
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I don’t have BB myself, but the bargain-bin batteries dare not match their 10 year warranty (who can tell what grade or composition their cells are??), or tech service, and cylindrical cells stay cooler (due to assembly air gaps), thus no outward swelling of battery case…Quite naturally this all comes at a premium, but it’s nice to have the option - Just saying
3 tons
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2oldman
NM
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Grit dog wrote:No, they’re still overpriced thanks to a following due to being the first legit LFP guys. The makers of cheaper, inferior products rely on this.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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2oldman wrote:Grit dog wrote:No, they’re still overpriced thanks to a following due to being the first legit LFP guys. The makers of cheaper, inferior products rely on this.
Value is both objective and subjective and of course different to different folks. And to say there is not some very subjective opinion of the “value” in this case would be wholly incorrect.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Joined: 07/16/2003
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otrfun wrote:StirCrazy wrote: . . . I would argue there is more potential for something to go wring in a battle born with over 100 cells soldered in as aposed to a prismatic type with only 8 battery conections, but it will be easier to detect on the prismatic . . . I would argue there is less potential.
The 100ah Battleborn (BB) battery cost more for a very good reason---better redundancy. BB uses 100+ cylindrical cells spot-welded in a parallel/series configuration (vs. series connected prismatic cells). Configured this way, a few cells can loose capacity or become unbalanced and have very little effect on the battery's overall output.
99% of the 100ah lifepo4 batteries on Amazon, etc., use prismatic cells. Typically 4 in series. If *any* of these 4 cells loose capacity or become unbalanced it directly and immediately degrades the overall output of the battery---potentially to the point the battery becomes almost unusable, all because of one cell.
BB could have easily chosen to use less expensive prismatic cells, but they didn't in order to provide a more stable, robust battery.
your talking about the noticable effect not the potential, and I did say that I believe. in a battle born if a solder joint comes lose it or a cell goes bad depending where it is you might not realy notice it or you may notice it a fair bit depending on the failur. in a prismatic if one goes bad you know it, which I concider a good thing and ease of changing out a cell in a prismatic system is by far more easy. I would argue also that prismatic may or may not be less expensive. the actual physical cell the celindrical cell is much cheper to produce on automated lines so to buy the cells them self the 120 cells in a 100AH battle born are cheeper than four 100AH prismatic cells untill recently.... the manufactuing process for prismatic has been altered and ramped up which is bring the cost down on prismatic quite significantly. you have less conections inside a prismatic battery so less chance for a factory defect, which also translates for lower labour costs. because you have 12 to 20 conections over 10 posts in a prismatic compared to the 240+ in a celinderical set up so the labour to wire/conect the cells is much less. the new production savings and increase in amounts of prismatic cells is making them more populer in automotive aplication which is bringing the price of automotive battery down. tesla is now doing all there chinese cars with LFP prismatic cells.
Steve
* This post was
edited 02/05/23 10:31am by StirCrazy *
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3 tons
NV.
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Well, I’d note that there’s lots of connections in my smart-phone (2 billion transistors) and PSW inverter-charger, but when done properly, 2 inverters, 3 phones and 2 i-pads later, I’ve yet to have a single problem…Subject to change?? (I donno…)..Honestly, over the past many years I’ve yet to lose a moments sleep over these perceived boogieman - that some folks do, I can accept that…
3 tons
* This post was
edited 02/05/23 09:43pm by 3 tons *
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jaycocreek
Idaho
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3 tons wrote:I don’t have BB myself, but the bargain-bin batteries dare not match their 10 year warranty (who can tell what grade or composition their cells are??), or tech service, and cylindrical cells stay cooler (due to assembly air gaps), thus no outward swelling of battery case…Quite naturally this all comes at a premium, but it’s nice to have the option - Just saying
3 tons
There are people that tear these bargain bin batteries down,identifying the cell manufacturer/wires etc and bms..On YouTube,so you pretty much know what your buying and what's inside..
Example-Redodo(Zooms) Ganfeng cells/LiTime (Ampere time). Eve cells
Lance 9.6
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500ah Lifep04
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otrfun
On The Road
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StirCrazy wrote:otrfun wrote:StirCrazy wrote: . . . I would argue there is more potential for something to go wring in a battle born with over 100 cells soldered in as aposed to a prismatic type with only 8 battery conections, but it will be easier to detect on the prismatic . . . I would argue there is less potential.
The 100ah Battleborn (BB) battery cost more for a very good reason---better redundancy. BB uses 100+ cylindrical cells spot-welded in a parallel/series configuration (vs. series connected prismatic cells). Configured this way, a few cells can loose capacity or become unbalanced and have very little effect on the battery's overall output.
99% of the 100ah lifepo4 batteries on Amazon, etc., use prismatic cells. Typically 4 in series. If *any* of these 4 cells loose capacity or become unbalanced it directly and immediately degrades the overall output of the battery---potentially to the point the battery becomes almost unusable, all because of one cell.
BB could have easily chosen to use less expensive prismatic cells, but they didn't in order to provide a more stable, robust battery. your talking about the noticable effect not the potential, and I did say that I believe. in a battle born if a solder joint comes lose it or a cell goes bad depending where it is you might not realy notice it or you may notice it a fair bit depending on the failur. in a prismatic if one goes bad you know it, which I concider a good thing and ease of changing out a cell in a prismatic system is by far more easy. I would argue also that prismatic may or may not be less expensive. the actual physical cell the celindrical cell is much cheper to produce on automated lines so to buy the cells them self the 120 cells in a 100AH battle born are cheeper than four 100AH prismatic cells untill recently.... the manufactuing process for prismatic has been altered and ramped up which is bring the cost down on prismatic quite significantly. you have less conections inside a prismatic battery so less chance for a factory defect, which also translates for lower labour costs. because you have 12 to 20 conections over 10 posts in a prismatic compared to the 240+ in a celinderical set up so the labour to wire/conect the cells is much less. the new production savings and increase in amounts of prismatic cells is making them more populer in automotive aplication which is bringing the price of automotive battery down. tesla is now doing all there chinese cars with LFP prismatic cells.
Steve We've been down this road before where I begin to have a difficult time following you.
You're making general statements about various costs, faulty/excessive connections, manufacturing processes, the ease of changing cells, faulty solder connections, popularity, etc. You've made it clear that you feel batteries that use prismatic cells are "better", I get that.
However, my previous post compared the *PARALLEL* and series cell arrangement used in the 100ah BB batteries to the *SERIES* ONLY cell arrangement used in 100ah batteries that use prismatic cells. Unless, you're willing to discuss this in some fashion, then I'm sorry, I have nothing further to add.
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