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Open Roads Forum  >  Around the Campfire

 > Can the grid keep up with EV use?

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Vintage465

Prunedale CA.

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Posted: 02/19/23 10:37am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

“As a person that has worked it both Gas and Electric construction and maintenance for a utility, I can tell you there is currently not enough generation in California to support this....we all knew that”…..

Well, where do we go to find the non-politicized, non-subsidy seeking, non-virtue signaling, rational individuals (independent of Gov’t Grant moola $$, and trendy popular narratives…) capable of saving us from this self-imposed day of reckoning??…Why are sentient minority voices of concern (the Socratic method = critical thinking…) being utterly dismissed??…The sage wisdom of Sir Winston Churchill comes to mind, “With each generation, a new world begins” - Just thinking about the future…

3 tons

Hey now.........I don't have those answers....I just had a view from the inside. At my age....I'm just going to know what I know. I hate to sound like "that guy", but as I said, I worked 40+ years to get where I am, looking forward to living the retirement I planned........and so far it's working out, I didn't plan on $7.00 a gallon Diesel, but I'm going live my retirement anyway. I won't say I'm not concerned about the one sided direction this is going, I just figure I have limited time on this earth, and taking on this at my age isn't something I'm interested in. But I will support any legislation and groups that support sensible solutions to our future. Of the three "Green" energy generation, Hydro, Solar and Wind, they are't as green as the envo's say they are. Everything has a footprint in my mind, and the site of those wind 'copters and solar sprawling across my view isn't something I enjoy seeing. Hydro is not as bad and truth is I think since it's been around forever, I think the majority of us see Hydro as part of the American Fabric of our nation. And I'm not saying wind 'copters and solar are bad, I'm just tired of hearing people say how great it is because it not part of the carbon foot print. But it is part of ecological foot print. The is the group that truly believes since they have a battery they have zero carbon or ecological impact.........OK.....so you got me started.......sorry for the rant and hopefully didn't offend anyones


V-465
2013 GMC 2500HD Duramax Denali. 2015 CreekSide 20fq w/450 watts solar and 465 amp/hour of batteries. Retired and living the dream!

3 tons

NV.

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Posted: 02/19/23 11:23am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Not at all Sir, I agree completely, and what you describe equates to my personal perspective as well, however I’ve yet to see even a mere modicum of objective (i.e. independent) science to suggest the widely accepted narrative that carbon is bad for the environment…In fact, it far more realistic to suggest that quite the opposite is true…

Truth is at present (or the last two decades) the earth is undergoing a greening process, particularly and more importantly at the mid-arid regions, likely thanks to liberated carbon (a plant fertilizer…) from natural carbon sinks (e.g. rocks, oceans, particularly petroleum)… FWIW, per core samples, the CO2 levels upon earths formation were somewhere between 3000-9000 ppm (5000ppm in submarines and 7000ppm on the Int’l space station…), and at 150ppm or below plant life cannot even exist…There is no additional CO2 on earth (what’s present already exist), all that is happening is the liberation of carbon from natural occurring earth sinks, a return to non-deficit levels…Good luck at trying to get gov’t grant money at making or even suggesting this case, thus a return to one the dimensional narratives (scientism…) of the medieval era…

3 tons

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 02/20/23 06:36am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Recent leveling off of vegetation greenness and primary production reveals the increasing soil water limitations on the greening EarthScience Bulletin
Volume 66, Issue 14, 30 July 2021, Pages 1462-1471


Quote:

Abstract
Global vegetation photosynthesis and productivity have increased substantially since the 1980s, but this trend is heterogeneous in both time and space. Here, we categorize the secular trend in global vegetation greenness into sustained greening, sustained browning and greening-to-browning. We found that by 2016, increased global vegetation greenness had begun to level off, with the area of browning increasing in the last decade, reaching 39.0 million km2 (35.9% of the world’s vegetated area). This area is larger than the area with sustained increasing growth (27.8 million km2, 26.4%); thus, 12.0% ± 3.1% (0.019 ± 0.004 NDVI a-1) of the previous earlier increase has been offset since 2010 (2010–2016, P < 0.05). Global gross primary production also leveled off, following the trend in vegetation greenness in time and space. This leveling off was caused by increasing soil water limitations due to the spatial expansion of drought, whose impact dominated over the impacts of temperature and solar radiation. This response of global gross primary production to soil water limitation was not identified by land submodels within Earth system models. Our results provide empirical evidence that global vegetation greenness and primary production are offset by water stress and suggest that as global warming continues, land submodels may overestimate the world’s capacity to take up carbon with global vegetation greening.


Perhaps the concept of indefinite greening with increasing CO2 levels, while an appealing counter argument for controlling CO2, is too simplistic for a very complex global ecosystem. There are several other recently published studies that measured vegetation browning in rainforests with increasing CO2 while there was greening in semi-arid regions. I suggest you investigate scientific concepts using google scholar (peer reviewed scientific studies) instead of google.

RambleOnNW

Pacific Northwest

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Posted: 02/20/23 02:57pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

3 tons wrote:

Not at all Sir, I agree completely, and what you describe equates to my personal perspective as well, however I’ve yet to see even a mere modicum of objective (i.e. independent) science to suggest the widely accepted narrative that carbon is bad for the environment…In fact, it far more realistic to suggest that quite the opposite is true…

Truth is at present (or the last two decades) the earth is undergoing a greening process, particularly and more importantly at the mid-arid regions, likely thanks to liberated carbon (a plant fertilizer…) from natural carbon sinks (e.g. rocks, oceans, particularly petroleum)… FWIW, per core samples, the CO2 levels upon earths formation were somewhere between 3000-9000 ppm (5000ppm in submarines and 7000ppm on the Int’l space station…), and at 150ppm or below plant life cannot even exist…There is no additional CO2 on earth (what’s present already exist), all that is happening is the liberation of carbon from natural occurring earth sinks, a return to non-deficit levels…Good luck at trying to get gov’t grant money at making or even suggesting this case, thus a return to one the dimensional narratives (scientism…) of the medieval era…

3 tons


Astounding misinformation of science and the geologic history of the earth. Provide a link to your data source so we can have a scientific dialogue.

Human life has flourished in the last 15,000 years only because climatic conditions have stayed within a narrow range in that time.

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 02/20/23 04:12pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

and for providing a mere glimpse into the research fraud estimated at about 50% of so-called ‘white papers’ (often funded by the obscene amounts of highly politicized Gov’t Grant ‘moola for evidence’) and the world of those who are Smart by about 1/2, actively bordering on a University kleptocracy…

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/25/706604033/duke-whistleblower-gets-more-than-33-million-in-research-fraud-settlement


Let me guess, those studies which support your point of view are valid and those that don’t must be fraudulent.

3 tons

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Posted: 02/20/23 04:18pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

Quote:

and for providing a mere glimpse into the research fraud estimated at about 50% of so-called ‘white papers’ (often funded by the obscene amounts of highly politicized Gov’t Grant ‘moola for evidence’) and the world of those who are Smart by about 1/2, actively bordering on a University kleptocracy…

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/25/706604033/duke-whistleblower-gets-more-than-33-million-in-research-fraud-settlement


Let me guess, those studies which support your point of view are valid and those that don’t must be fraudulent.


I suggest that you Sir try reversing your argument (actually a sophomoric debate tactic) and then see how it fits - your intolerance to a different outlook knows no bounds -

There’s an old axiom that applies about arguing with the ‘close minded’ (of one dimension…) m…I dare not dislodge one from the comfort their own favorite paradigm..

3 tons

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 02/20/23 04:41pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Debating tactics are trumped by data in published studies. Care to provide any?

3 tons

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Posted: 02/20/23 05:48pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

BCSnob wrote:

Debating tactics are trumped by data in published studies. Care to provide any?


Tell me, to what possible avail??…Since you suggest your facts are in someway better than mine, why not simply refute what I written and gain your prize?? - I’m certain that other folks are interested to hear what you might say…

3 tons

BCSnob

Middletown, MD

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Posted: 02/20/23 06:11pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I have posted links to studies (not opinions websites; peer reviewed studies) which you have implied are fraudulent. Where’s your evidence refuting these studies as fraudulent; where’s your links to published studies supporting your opinion?

Let’s see if I can summarize your stance.

This is my opinion on climate change, you cannot refute my opinion with peer reviewed studies on climate change because of this example of a fraudulent study from a national institute of health grant, and until you refute my opinion with studies I won’t provide studies to back up my opinion.

With this “logic” you clearly win.

* This post was last edited 02/20/23 06:48pm by BCSnob *   View edit history

MEXICOWANDERER

las peñas, michoacan, mexico

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Posted: 02/20/23 06:29pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

I find little comfort that the natural order always finds means to correct overpopulation. Have any readers studied Glaciation and TO oscillation in interglacial periods. I suggest doing so.

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