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Samsonsworld
West Texas
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toedtoes wrote:Samsonsworld wrote:Shades down, leave the TV on with noise. The reason dogs bark is because they are reacting to external stimulation. If they can't discern it from an internal source, they don't bark.
But there a few on here I'd let my dogs poop on their site. Probably the same grumpy old farts that blast their TV every evening because they are half deaf.
My dogs can quite easily discern a noise coming from outside versus inside regardless of whether they can see.
And a dog who barks at knocking or a doorbell will often bark at those sounds on a tv. So I'd be inclined to say the exact opposite is true:
Dogs barks at various noises and they can't always discern it's coming from a tv or radio, so they may well bark even if there's nothing there.
I only have experience with about 20 dogs, I admit that's limited. But never had an issue, even with yappers. So, pretty much calling BS.
And if that is the case I'd question how much noise your making to stimulate the dogs.
Ps- your rv has a doorbell....people knock?
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wildtoad
Blythewood, SC
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I’ve seen all kinds of opinions on this thread ranging from self interpretations of the rules, self-righteous never broken a rule ever, to those with common sense. I’ve been to federal parks where pets aren’t allowed on the beach, trails, roadways. It’s impractical to never leave your pet alone in your RV when you need/want to go out for dinner, grocery shopping, or seek medical help. Taking them with you and leaving them in the car kinda depends on the weather. Lots of dogs, cats, babies have perished in what some consider a mild climate, but park their car in the sun. If you are a full timer it’s hard to leave your pets with a friend or board them.
We take our dogs with us all the time because they are family, they are small loving creatures that wouldn’t hurt a flea, and usually only bark as we are backing out of the campsite and they realize they can’t go too. We leave them in a climate controlled MH, and if we ever comeback and there’s a note from the ranger we will deal with at that time. We also drink in our RV even though the signs says no alcohol allowed. I do speed on a regular basis but not by much, another rule broken..O’ Darn.
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toedtoes
California
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wildtoad wrote:It’s impractical to never leave your pet alone in your RV when you need/want to go out for dinner, grocery shopping, or seek medical help.
I would argue that need is different than want. If you need emergency medical attention, then that would be one thing. If you need to go grocery shopping, then surely one of you can go to the store while the other stays behind with the dogs. As for eating out, you can always take the dogs for a drive to the restaurant, order takeout, and enjoy it in the company of your dogs.
wildtoad wrote:Taking them with you and leaving them in the car kinda depends on the weather. Lots of dogs, cats, babies have perished in what some consider a mild climate, but park their car in the sun.
Yes, it does depend on the weather. That is why I do my research BEFORE I make trip plans to be sure that my dogs will be safe and comfortable in the car. I also think about this at home with even short car drives - will the car cool down enough during the drive for the dog to be comfortable - and that's for drives that don't require me to turn off the engine and/or get out of the car.
wildtoad wrote:We take our dogs with us all the time because they are family, they are small loving creatures that wouldn’t hurt a flea, and usually only bark as we are backing out of the campsite and they realize they can’t go too.
My dogs are family too. Because of that, I plan my trips around them, rather than planning a trip where I know I will be violating a park/campground rule because I want it both ways (to take my dogs and to leave them behind).
I'm not sure what their being small has to do with anything. Small dogs are more often yappers. Small dogs are just as likely to have issues being left alone.
Yeah, the "my dog is nice" argument is a common one. My dogs are nice too and wouldn't hurt a flea - until something happens that causes them to react like a dog. I don't pretend my dogs would never cause a problem. It can happen with any dog. And for the record, the only dogs that have ever bitten me were small dogs.
wildtoad wrote:We leave them in a climate controlled MH, and if we ever comeback and there’s a note from the ranger we will deal with at that time. We also drink in our RV even though the signs says no alcohol allowed. I do speed on a regular basis but not by much, another rule broken..O’ Darn.
That's fine. If you choose to break the rules because you find them unreasonable or too confining, etc.
For me, I consider what the repercussions of my breaking the rule are before I do so. Over the years, I've watched many places ban dogs completely because they got tired of dealing with the rule breakers. People let their "but he's friendly" dogs off leash and the dog attacked a leashed dog or a person. People didn't clean up after their dog. People left their dog unattended and the dog barked nonstop. It's fine if it's just one person ignoring the rule and doing so "responsibly". But as I mentioned, others see you doing it and so they do it. But they aren't responsible. The campground/park gets fed up with the complaints and dogs are no longer allowed at all.
I don't follow every law to the letter (I have sped on ocassion, etc). But I LOVE being able to take my dogs camping with me. So I follow the rules to ensure that I am not the cause for dogs being banned.
I have a friend who camps with us. I can tell she gets tired of planning things around the dogs. I tell her "that's what having dogs means. Just like having kids. You fit your lifestyle according to their needs - you don't force them into your lifestyle.
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Samsonsworld
West Texas
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toedtoes wrote: If you need to go grocery shopping, then surely one of you can go to the store .
So explain again who's going to the store, me or the dog????
Think you're being a little presumptuous.
* This post was
edited 02/26/23 02:55pm by Samsonsworld *
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dedmiston
Coast to Coast
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We travel with our dogs. They can't speak, but they seem to love the experience. Objectively though, they seem just as happy when we get home as they do when we hit the road. I guess their natural inclination is to be happy though.
We mostly boondock, so there aren't really any rules aside from general statewide cruelty regulations. So leaving them in the RV while we go exploring isn't illegal and we aren't breaking any rules.
They seem to absolutely love it. They seem to mostly sleep while we're gone, but that's based on the hearsay of others in our group who stay behind while we're out. According to our campmates, the dogs are a non-issue while we're gone.
On the other hand, they absolutely lose their minds when we return to camp. We jokingly say every time we return: "Cue barking dogs" and point to the trailer. They bark when they hear the gravel crunch of our tires, and then they stop when we get to the door. So there's about 45 seconds max of nuisance barking. Seems acceptable to us.
We also do the same thing when we camp in RV parks and have no misgivings about it. Our dogs aren't a nuisance (except for that 45 seconds when we return) unless someone messes with our camp. Again, this is based on witness accounts from neighboring spaces.
As far as I'm concerned, there's a hierarchy of concerns when it comes to bringing the dogs.
1. Most importantly is the safety and lack of cruelty to the dogs. Do they have food & water? Are they comfortable? Are they too hot or too cold?
2. Next is the impact on the neighbors. Do the dogs bark or fart or do anything else that will affect the neighbors?
3. Is there stimulation for the dogs or do they get bored to the point of frustration?
If the dogs are OK, aren't bothering anyone, and if you reward them with walks and other stimulation, then leaving them behind falls into what I consider to be the "victimless crime" category.
Are they unattended? Depends on how you define that. All their needs have been attended to and they aren't chained up outside where they can cause problems.
Similar to the "no alcohol" camps, what happens inside our RV isn't anybody's business provided nothing inside affects anybody outside. We've stayed at plenty of these dry camps, but we never pour out our liquor when we stay there. We just don't take it outside and don't cause any trouble.
Are we breaking the rules? Probably. We consider ourselves to be law abiding people, but we're also aware that we break the laws all the time (speed limits, rolling stops, etc.). We also break a few of the Ten Commandments from time to time. We're human.
We pay extra to have the dogs with us and we make sure they're well behaved and aren't harming or annoying anyone else. That seems good enough to me.
We have plenty of mantras in our family, and one of them is: "Don't let OUR problems turn into YOUR problems." As long as our dogs aren't negatively impacting you, then there's no problem.
It's kind of like the elements of a civil tort:
1. Duty owed
2. Duty breached
3. Damages result <<--- This is important here
4. The breach of duty is the proximate cause of the damages
Number three there is the basis of the saying "No harm, no foul". If there's no harm to anyone, then it's irrelevant whether we broke a rule (breached a duty) or not. You're OK. We're OK. The dogs are OK. Everybody is good.
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ppine
Northern Nevada
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Nope.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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toedtoes wrote:Lantley wrote:
For the record experienced campers with well behaved dogs leave them unattended all the time.
That doesn't make it right. And for the record, I am an experienced camper with well-behaved dogs. I don't leave my dogs unattended in the campground if the rule is "dogs are not to be left unattended".
Look at it this way. You and your dog are experienced. Every day, you leave your dog behind in the RV while you go sightsee. The rules don't allow forthis, buy hey, your dog is well-behaved. Your neighbor, who is new to camping and who boarded his dog because the campground told him "no you can't leave your dog alone in the RV while you sightsee", sees you doing just that every day. He says to himself " well, obviously that rule is not enforced!". So for his next trip, he ignores the rule, brings his dog, and leaves the dog alone in the RV while he sightsees. His neighbor sees him ignoring the rule, so on their next trip, they do the same.
Now the campgrounds have a problem with dogs barking while their owners are out sightseeing. They are fed up with dog owners who disregard their rules. So they simply change the rule to "no dogs allowed". And now none of us get to enjoy camping with our dogs - all because some "experienced camper" chose to ignore the rules.
I consider the unattended dog rules similar to the no alcohol rules at Most state parks in my area.
If your drinking and causing problems the authorities can quickly enforce the rules without debate. If your dog is barking or disturbing the peace the authorities can quickly enforce the rules if necessary without debate.
However if you and your dog are well behaved there is no harm done and consequently no foul.
Sometimes rules are put in place as a deterrent to ensure compliant behavior vs. solely for enforcement.
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solismaris
Massachusetts
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I like the comment "what goes on in my trailer is nobody's business". I've also been known to drink alcohol at state parks. I'll probably make some test runs with the dog - make like I am leaving and drive 5 minutes away and listen with a baby or dog monitor. Barking heard? Bad; abandon idea. No barking? Keep monitoring and start to go away longer periods
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bigred1cav
ohio
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Stay on your own site, would you prefer owners take dogs to showers?
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toedtoes
California
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Lantley wrote:
I consider the unattended dog rules similar to the no alcohol rules at Most state parks in my area.
If your drinking and causing problems the authorities can quickly enforce the rules without debate. If your dog is barking or disturbing the peace the authorities can quickly enforce the rules if necessary without debate.
However if you and your dog are well behaved there is no harm done and consequently no foul.
Sometimes rules are put in place as a deterrent to ensure compliant behavior vs. solely for enforcement.
In theory yes. But in reality, it's a lot different. With alcohol, they can simply say "put it away or leave". With dogs left unattended, they get all the arguments here in this thread " but he doesn't bark", "he's small and just sleeps all day", "but we want to eat out tonight", "but we can't take her into the themepark", and on and on. The rangers get very tired of the arguments. And when it gets bad enough, they say "fine. No dogs for you!" and enact laws banning dogs from the campgrounds completely.
This happened with "dogs on trails". Once they were allowed with the usual "pick up their poop", "keep dogs on trails", and "keep dogs on leash" laws. But people decided those were inconveniences and just for other people with bad dogs, etc. When cited, the owners whined and argued about why THEIR dog shouldn't have to follow the rules. Rangers got tired of it. They enacted laws that now prevent dogs from going on trails, etc.
Look I'm not saying that anyone who leaves their dog unattended at their campsite is evil. And if it were limited to just one or two campsites with quiet dogs, etc, I wouldn't argue so much against it.
But the truth is, for every person who IS ACTUALLY only leaving well behaved quiet dogs who sleep the four hours max the owners are out, there are a dozen idiots out there who will happily leave their loud obnoxious dogs all day every day. And as with "but my dog is friendly", dog owners (and I say this as a dog owner) tend to have selective amnesia for all the times the dog has not been friendly/quiet/polite/etc, insisting that their dog never barks because they've asked the neighbors, etc.
Folks will do as they want. But I won't tell a stranger on the internet that it's OK for them to leave their dog(s) unattended against the rules. I may tell someone I know well and whose dog I know well "it's against the rules, but if it's just a couple hours here and there and knowing your dog, no one will likely even realize you left him. Just be prepared for the repercussions IF you do get called out for it. You may be asked to leave with no refund. You may not be able to enjoy the rest of your stay because your plan to leave the dog behind each day has been curtailed."
I'll add that one of the reasons for the rule is for safety of the dog. If you leave your dog in the RV while you spend the afternoon at the museum, there may be an emergency at the campground that makes it unsafe for your dog. Look at the thread with the RVs falling off the cliff.
1) they don't know a dog is in there because it's not allowed, so they don't try to get your dog out if there's a fire, etc. Your dog dies because it took you too long to get back when your monitoring alarms went off. And if you call the park for help, you put them at risk of injury/death to save your dog who shouldn't have been left alone in there.
2) If they need to get into your RV for some emergency reason, they unknowingly put themselves at risk confronting an unknown dog with no owners around.
3) if the dog gets out somehow, they now have a dog running loose who may be scared. And a scared dog could easily bite someone.
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